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>Who pays volunteers on Wikipedia, Linux, BSD, Webkit, Chromium, PHP, Python In order: Wikimedia Foundation, various companies, various companies, Apple, Googl

>Who pays volunteers on Wikipedia, Linux, BSD, Webkit, Chromium, PHP, Python In order: Wikimedia Foundation, various companies, various companies, Apple, Google, various companies, various companies. Most of those developers are paid. The wikipedia editors are unpaid volunteers, but the IT staff isn't.

EGreg 4y ago
You asked about the volunteers, not the paid staff. The vast, vast majority of contributions on eg wikipedia comes from unpaid contributors.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  I would not assume the latter
  - EGreg 4y ago
    It is easy to check in a variety of ways, including calling their API of contributors. Where would Wikipedia get the money to oay this vast army of people? And even if they did, divide the amount they raised by the number of contributors and tell me if it is a meaningful amount compared to what employees are paid in the capitalist company model.
    - orangepurple 4y ago
      It isn't Wikipedia that is hiring or paying the contributors I refer to
- dcow 4y ago
  No, I asked my question assuming we lived in the world you’re suggesting where all software is built by volunteers in a utopian gift economy. I am asking who pays your volunteers. The question is semi-rhetorical. The answer as GP points out is that in the majority of these cases open source software is still funded by capitalists. Wikipedia content presumably being largely a volunteer effort doesn't change this. Something still has to fund Wikipedia's existence. Wikipedia and signal for example are funded by nonprofits. I quite like this model which is why I suggested it in my previous comment. The main point is that you can’t just tell everyone to work for free and still call it capitalism or even expect it to work at all. That’s what it sounds like you’re suggesting… I like your challenge to the capitalism/socialism dichotomy. I think your solution is lacking some sophistication in understanding how the open source landscape works, what motivates people and how to yield production, and is kinda out of touch with reality.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    I think it’s quite the reverse: rather than being out of touch with reality, it is based on behavioral economic studies of reality ignored by capitalists. Watch for example this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rbR2V1UeB_A https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rbR2V1UeB_A The way they would be able to contribute is that the UBI would allow them to negotiate shorter workweeks. They’d use the time for other things, like taking care of their own children and parents, rather than sticking them in a nursing home and public schools. My solution also helps women close the pay gap: https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=286 https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=286
    - dcow 4y ago
      Honestly I’m not even sure what we’re talking about anymore. I definitely agree we need a way as a society to have families raise their own kids and break the power couple plus daycare dynamic. But I doubt a volunteer economy would achieve those results. We need to make homemaker a socially prestigious occupation and provide people doing that role more of a support system and structure so they can participate in the economic machine and feel/be valued the same way “breadwinners” are. Then they’ll be seen and see themselves as equals. Also the Atlassian example in the video is meh. The people aren't working for free. They’re working for a paycheck. The company just lets them have autonomy for one day a quarter. So 4 days a year they get to work on what they want instead of what their managers want and this is your example of how a volunteer economy supported by UBI will work? Have you paid any attention the last 2 years? People don't work if they don't have to feed their family and pay the mortgage… I think you’re conflating innovation with grunt work. Until we have robots to do all the grunt work, UBI is a pipe dream. And I say that wanting it for myself just as much as the next person… so I’m with you there.

EGreg 4y ago

You asked about the volunteers, not the paid staff. The vast, vast majority of contributions on eg wikipedia comes from unpaid contributors.

orangepurple 4y ago
I would not assume the latter
- EGreg 4y ago
  It is easy to check in a variety of ways, including calling their API of contributors. Where would Wikipedia get the money to oay this vast army of people? And even if they did, divide the amount they raised by the number of contributors and tell me if it is a meaningful amount compared to what employees are paid in the capitalist company model.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    It isn't Wikipedia that is hiring or paying the contributors I refer to
dcow 4y ago
No, I asked my question assuming we lived in the world you’re suggesting where all software is built by volunteers in a utopian gift economy. I am asking who pays your volunteers. The question is semi-rhetorical. The answer as GP points out is that in the majority of these cases open source software is still funded by capitalists. Wikipedia content presumably being largely a volunteer effort doesn't change this. Something still has to fund Wikipedia's existence. Wikipedia and signal for example are funded by nonprofits. I quite like this model which is why I suggested it in my previous comment. The main point is that you can’t just tell everyone to work for free and still call it capitalism or even expect it to work at all. That’s what it sounds like you’re suggesting… I like your challenge to the capitalism/socialism dichotomy. I think your solution is lacking some sophistication in understanding how the open source landscape works, what motivates people and how to yield production, and is kinda out of touch with reality.
- EGreg 4y ago
  I think it’s quite the reverse: rather than being out of touch with reality, it is based on behavioral economic studies of reality ignored by capitalists. Watch for example this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rbR2V1UeB_A https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rbR2V1UeB_A The way they would be able to contribute is that the UBI would allow them to negotiate shorter workweeks. They’d use the time for other things, like taking care of their own children and parents, rather than sticking them in a nursing home and public schools. My solution also helps women close the pay gap: https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=286 https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=286
  - dcow 4y ago
    Honestly I’m not even sure what we’re talking about anymore. I definitely agree we need a way as a society to have families raise their own kids and break the power couple plus daycare dynamic. But I doubt a volunteer economy would achieve those results. We need to make homemaker a socially prestigious occupation and provide people doing that role more of a support system and structure so they can participate in the economic machine and feel/be valued the same way “breadwinners” are. Then they’ll be seen and see themselves as equals. Also the Atlassian example in the video is meh. The people aren't working for free. They’re working for a paycheck. The company just lets them have autonomy for one day a quarter. So 4 days a year they get to work on what they want instead of what their managers want and this is your example of how a volunteer economy supported by UBI will work? Have you paid any attention the last 2 years? People don't work if they don't have to feed their family and pay the mortgage… I think you’re conflating innovation with grunt work. Until we have robots to do all the grunt work, UBI is a pipe dream. And I say that wanting it for myself just as much as the next person… so I’m with you there.