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> I’ve spoken to various taxi drivers, including current and former Uber drivers, and none of them liked working for Uber. They merely felt trapped. I live in

> I’ve spoken to various taxi drivers, including current and former Uber drivers, and none of them liked working for Uber. They merely felt trapped. I live in the U.S. I speak to almost all of my rideshare drivers about how they feel about their work. Literally none of them have expressed the feeling that they're trapped. (And not one has said that he would prefer driving a taxi.) They do make criticisms, more of Uber than of Lyft. But the main sentiments that they express are appreciation of scheduling flexibility and of not having a boss.

adra 4y ago
If they can be de-platformed, they have a boss. They just have flexible work hours.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  Being able to work for many platforms means you choose your boss.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Being able to take several drugs means you choose your drug
    - Gunnerhead 4y ago
      This is the second time I see you mentioning drugs in this thread [1], I genuinely don't understand the correlation or the argument you're trying to make? Comment by ClumsyPilot - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048240
neilk 4y ago
The people who are currently working for Uber think working for Uber is a good deal. You might get similarly positive reviews from the buyers of scratcher lottery tickets. There are a lot of articles from random websites saying that it is a good deal, and given the ease of placing such content I think we should be skeptical. Every time I see an article from a driver, who is not a pro blogger in the space, and who’s done the math, it is usually pretty negative to neutral. https://www.quora.com/Is-driving-for-Uber-worth-the-wear-and-tear-and-mileage-on-my-car https://www.quora.com/Is-driving-for-Uber-worth-the-wear-and... It’s actually really hard to know if you’re making money when you take things like capital depreciation and opportunity cost into account, and sophisticated businesspeople make this mistake all the time. The average driver could easily be fooled until it’s too late. It would be nice if capitalism did correct price discovery here but we’re dealing with a market which has been highly distorted, both from questionable government regulation and taxi monopolies AND from insane startup valuations and investment. The only accountability moment has been the public markets and even then it’s pretty mixed. Uber has overwhelming power over their drivers and if it was actually a good deal for them it would be the first time in the history of labor relations that a company left money on the table out of the goodness of their heart. Does Uber strike you as that company? Yes I use ridesharing when I’m in the SFBA because there’s few other plausible ways to get around. I’m crossing my fingers the whole time that I’m not helping someone dig themselves deeper into a financial hole.
- remflight 4y ago
  I love it. So you’re comparing the experiences of real drivers who don’t hate it to bloggers who are making mathematical calculations and you take the word of the bloggers. That’s just about par for the course. “The poor dumb blue collar workers don’t know any better and need to be protected by the smarter elites who did the calculations!”
  - blowski 4y ago
    I don't see you presenting any contrary evidence of the opinions of "real drivers".
    - neilk 4y ago
      As far as I know, such evidence has never been released by Uber. I’m sure that Uber knows, or could, but I don’t think they’ve shared that info. They have an API called Movement which publishes anonymized data about trips, but I think cost isn’t available. There was a study by MIT in 2018 that concluded it was a bad deal for drivers. https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/02/mit-study-shows-how-much-driving-for-uber-or-lyft-sucks/amp/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/02/mit-study-shows-how-much-d... I don’t know if the 2018 data is still relevant, as there are complex incentives that vary in each market. But, Uber (and similar companies) could probably end the questions tomorrow by releasing data or allowing researchers to have access to their drivers. The fact that they don’t, and that they instead spend $200M lobbying the governments to make an exception for worker protections for rideshare drivers (and tried to make that irrevocable without a 7/8ths majority!!) seems telling to me. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/20/politics/california-proposition-22-uber-lyft/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/20/politics/california-propo...
  - kbenson 4y ago
    They didn't state the bloggers were making the calculations. The bloggers noted are pro Uber. If you're going to just dismiss someone's point through an appeal to sentiment, you might as well get it right. Or maybe getting what was said right doesn't matter, and just recasting it as elitist as a tactic is the point.
hotpotamus 4y ago
Would you be happy if your child was an Uber driver?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- flappyeagle 4y ago
  I would be happier for them to driver for Uber or Lyft than for a taxi company. I don’t think it’s a career. Just a job. If my kid drove for a ride share while going to school or something that seems fine.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    There are quite a few qualifications to that answer.
    - Gunnerhead 4y ago
      Because you asked a very loaded question. If you were to ask me that question, I'd say: I'd be as happy that my child drives for Uber, as much as I'd be happy they're driving for a taxi, limousine, or a bus.
      - hotpotamus 4y ago
        It's a question I ask myself often when I see the disrespect Americans have for people in jobs they also consider essential. I have other questions for myself like, "how would I truthfully explain this to my mother?". If the answers make you feel shame, then that probably tells you something.
        Gunnerhead 4y ago
        1. I don't see anyone in the comments disrespecting Uber drivers 2. I never stated I'd feel shameful 3. I'm not sure I understand what argument you're trying to make
r00fus 4y ago
> I live in the U.S. I speak to almost all of my rideshare drivers about how they feel about their work. Literally none of them have expressed the feeling that they're trapped Just think about the subjective bias here. They're working, you're the customer - do you talk shit about your employer on company time? Everyone knows that has serious risks.
- naijaboiler 4y ago
  I was thinking the same thing. You need to actually be close friends to actual drivers, when not interacting with them as passengers, to hear how they actually feel about uber
remflight 4y ago
- blowski 4y ago
  To say "no-one is complaining" is factually wrong, since there have been multiple Uber strikes throughout the world over the last couple of years on these very issues. And I have spoken to Uber drivers that are complaining. Whether they represent a majority of Uber drivers or just a noisy minority is more difficult.
runarberg 4y ago
I always put more weight on negative comments about owns work condition because cognitive dissonance is a known human bias. If you are working at a dead end job, where your pays and benefits are sub-optimal, and you are even putting more work hours then in other possible jobs, then why are you working there? Because of cognitive dissonance it is much easier to tell your self that you actually like the job over accepting the reality that you probably shouldn’t work there. https://dilbert.com/strip/1992-08-09 https://dilbert.com/strip/1992-08-09
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> I live in the U.S. I speak to almost all of my rideshare drivers about how they feel about their work. Literally none of them have expressed the feeling that they're trapped. if you ask a smoking addinct if they could quit, 80% say yes and 80% will fail if they try. Now if you show they've done the math on depreciation of their car, worked for 10 years, etc. then maybe yoi have an argument

adra 4y ago

If they can be de-platformed, they have a boss. They just have flexible work hours.

ipaddr 4y ago
Being able to work for many platforms means you choose your boss.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  Being able to take several drugs means you choose your drug
  - Gunnerhead 4y ago
    This is the second time I see you mentioning drugs in this thread [1], I genuinely don't understand the correlation or the argument you're trying to make? Comment by ClumsyPilot - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048240

neilk 4y ago

The people who are currently working for Uber think working for Uber is a good deal. You might get similarly positive reviews from the buyers of scratcher lottery tickets. There are a lot of articles from random websites saying that it is a good deal, and given the ease of placing such content I think we should be skeptical. Every time I see an article from a driver, who is not a pro blogger in the space, and who’s done the math, it is usually pretty negative to neutral. https://www.quora.com/Is-driving-for-Uber-worth-the-wear-and-tear-and-mileage-on-my-car https://www.quora.com/Is-driving-for-Uber-worth-the-wear-and... It’s actually really hard to know if you’re making money when you take things like capital depreciation and opportunity cost into account, and sophisticated businesspeople make this mistake all the time. The average driver could easily be fooled until it’s too late. It would be nice if capitalism did correct price discovery here but we’re dealing with a market which has been highly distorted, both from questionable government regulation and taxi monopolies AND from insane startup valuations and investment. The only accountability moment has been the public markets and even then it’s pretty mixed. Uber has overwhelming power over their drivers and if it was actually a good deal for them it would be the first time in the history of labor relations that a company left money on the table out of the goodness of their heart. Does Uber strike you as that company? Yes I use ridesharing when I’m in the SFBA because there’s few other plausible ways to get around. I’m crossing my fingers the whole time that I’m not helping someone dig themselves deeper into a financial hole.

remflight 4y ago
I love it. So you’re comparing the experiences of real drivers who don’t hate it to bloggers who are making mathematical calculations and you take the word of the bloggers. That’s just about par for the course. “The poor dumb blue collar workers don’t know any better and need to be protected by the smarter elites who did the calculations!”
- blowski 4y ago
  I don't see you presenting any contrary evidence of the opinions of "real drivers".
  - neilk 4y ago
    As far as I know, such evidence has never been released by Uber. I’m sure that Uber knows, or could, but I don’t think they’ve shared that info. They have an API called Movement which publishes anonymized data about trips, but I think cost isn’t available. There was a study by MIT in 2018 that concluded it was a bad deal for drivers. https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/02/mit-study-shows-how-much-driving-for-uber-or-lyft-sucks/amp/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/02/mit-study-shows-how-much-d... I don’t know if the 2018 data is still relevant, as there are complex incentives that vary in each market. But, Uber (and similar companies) could probably end the questions tomorrow by releasing data or allowing researchers to have access to their drivers. The fact that they don’t, and that they instead spend $200M lobbying the governments to make an exception for worker protections for rideshare drivers (and tried to make that irrevocable without a 7/8ths majority!!) seems telling to me. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/20/politics/california-proposition-22-uber-lyft/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/08/20/politics/california-propo...
- kbenson 4y ago
  They didn't state the bloggers were making the calculations. The bloggers noted are pro Uber. If you're going to just dismiss someone's point through an appeal to sentiment, you might as well get it right. Or maybe getting what was said right doesn't matter, and just recasting it as elitist as a tactic is the point.

hotpotamus 4y ago

Would you be happy if your child was an Uber driver?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
flappyeagle 4y ago
I would be happier for them to driver for Uber or Lyft than for a taxi company. I don’t think it’s a career. Just a job. If my kid drove for a ride share while going to school or something that seems fine.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  There are quite a few qualifications to that answer.
  - Gunnerhead 4y ago
    Because you asked a very loaded question. If you were to ask me that question, I'd say: I'd be as happy that my child drives for Uber, as much as I'd be happy they're driving for a taxi, limousine, or a bus.
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      It's a question I ask myself often when I see the disrespect Americans have for people in jobs they also consider essential. I have other questions for myself like, "how would I truthfully explain this to my mother?". If the answers make you feel shame, then that probably tells you something.
      - Gunnerhead 4y ago
        1. I don't see anyone in the comments disrespecting Uber drivers 2. I never stated I'd feel shameful 3. I'm not sure I understand what argument you're trying to make

r00fus 4y ago

> I live in the U.S. I speak to almost all of my rideshare drivers about how they feel about their work. Literally none of them have expressed the feeling that they're trapped Just think about the subjective bias here. They're working, you're the customer - do you talk shit about your employer on company time? Everyone knows that has serious risks.

naijaboiler 4y ago
I was thinking the same thing. You need to actually be close friends to actual drivers, when not interacting with them as passengers, to hear how they actually feel about uber

remflight 4y ago

blowski 4y ago
To say "no-one is complaining" is factually wrong, since there have been multiple Uber strikes throughout the world over the last couple of years on these very issues. And I have spoken to Uber drivers that are complaining. Whether they represent a majority of Uber drivers or just a noisy minority is more difficult.

runarberg 4y ago

I always put more weight on negative comments about owns work condition because cognitive dissonance is a known human bias. If you are working at a dead end job, where your pays and benefits are sub-optimal, and you are even putting more work hours then in other possible jobs, then why are you working there? Because of cognitive dissonance it is much easier to tell your self that you actually like the job over accepting the reality that you probably shouldn’t work there. https://dilbert.com/strip/1992-08-09 https://dilbert.com/strip/1992-08-09

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> I live in the U.S. I speak to almost all of my rideshare drivers about how they feel about their work. Literally none of them have expressed the feeling that they're trapped. if you ask a smoking addinct if they could quit, 80% say yes and 80% will fail if they try. Now if you show they've done the math on depreciation of their car, worked for 10 years, etc. then maybe yoi have an argument