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The technology definitely made life easier for passengers, especially in big cities. Prices were cheaper for some time, but only because they were subsidised by

The technology definitely made life easier for passengers, especially in big cities. Prices were cheaper for some time, but only because they were subsidised by investors, so hardly a net gain. Arguably, they made the environment worse by pushing middle income off public transport and into taxis For drivers, things seem to have got worse. I’ve spoken to various taxi drivers, including current and former Uber drivers, and none of them liked working for Uber. They merely felt trapped. But there is an argument to say that the local taxi cartels needed breaking up, and only a company prepared to engage in these kind of tactics could have done it. I don’t know what I think about all this.

alisonatwork 4y ago
A key point here is that Uber didn't just disrupt taxi cartels, it also undermined public transport services. In places like Miami it even became a sanctioned alternative to bus routes that were cut. To me this is the true long term damage of their VC-funded predatory pricing model.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rawling 4y ago
  > In places like Miami it even became a sanctioned alternative to bus routes that were cut. As in... government justified cutting bus services by saying Uber was a viable alternative?
  - alisonatwork 4y ago
    Technically, yes. For a while they provided vouchers to reimburse riders for using Uber instead of the public bus system.[0] Now those particular night bus routes have returned to service, but others have been reduced or canceled. This has been happening for the past 10 years or so all over the US.[1] It's not clear if Uber is the primary culprit, but it certainly doesn't help.[2] [0] https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241822716.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article24182271... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/upshot/mystery-of-missing-bus-riders.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/upshot/myster... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0965856422000945 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096585642...
- indymike 4y ago
  USA centric answer here: In flyover country, in most cities ride share has been life changing for people that would be stuck using overpriced local taxis (in smaller 80K-150K person cities taxi rates are confiscatory and service is often VERY limited) or terrible public transportation. Terrible meaning, a $2 bus ride that takes three and a half hours (of which 2 hours is sitting in the elemets) out of their day vs. ride share taking 10 minutes and $15. Honestly, I'm not sure where the idea came from that outside some of the largest cities, public transport or taxis even were viable options. Now there's uber/lyft everywhere, because there's always someone with a car who would like to make some money.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    That's great, but how does that justify Uber's poor behavior in places like Miami?
    - indymike 4y ago
      Not even trying to justify it.
  - alisonatwork 4y ago
    The idea comes from many other countries where 80k-150k cities have public transport services that don't require people to spend 2 hours sitting in the elements waiting for a bus.
  - bsder 4y ago
    > USA centric answer here: In flyover country, in most cities ride share has been life changing for people that would be stuck using overpriced local taxis (in smaller 80K-150K person cities taxi rates are confiscatory and service is often VERY limited) or terrible public transportation. And if Uber/Lyft had confined themselves to delivering reliable transport at a reasonable price in Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, etc. people would be singing their praises. But they didn't. Because those places weren't just unprofitable but were wildly unprofitable. Which is stupid because I suspect being a reliable broker between driver and client could still be profitable. Having someone put in "I need to go from A to B at time X." and having a pool of drivers who can go "I'm going to B anyway, so why don't I adjust my time and make some money for doing so." would be a good thing in "flyover" country. However, it won't be venture capital profitable. And that's really the crux of the problem here.
jbullock35 4y ago
> I’ve spoken to various taxi drivers, including current and former Uber drivers, and none of them liked working for Uber. They merely felt trapped. I live in the U.S. I speak to almost all of my rideshare drivers about how they feel about their work. Literally none of them have expressed the feeling that they're trapped. (And not one has said that he would prefer driving a taxi.) They do make criticisms, more of Uber than of Lyft. But the main sentiments that they express are appreciation of scheduling flexibility and of not having a boss.
- adra 4y ago
  If they can be de-platformed, they have a boss. They just have flexible work hours.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    Being able to work for many platforms means you choose your boss.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      Being able to take several drugs means you choose your drug
      - Gunnerhead 4y ago
        This is the second time I see you mentioning drugs in this thread [1], I genuinely don't understand the correlation or the argument you're trying to make? Comment by ClumsyPilot - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048240
- neilk 4y ago
  The people who are currently working for Uber think working for Uber is a good deal. You might get similarly positive reviews from the buyers of scratcher lottery tickets. There are a lot of articles from random websites saying that it is a good deal, and given the ease of placing such content I think we should be skeptical. Every time I see an article from a driver, who is not a pro blogger in the space, and who’s done the math, it is usually pretty negative to neutral. https://www.quora.com/Is-driving-for-Uber-worth-the-wear-and-tear-and-mileage-on-my-car https://www.quora.com/Is-driving-for-Uber-worth-the-wear-and... It’s actually really hard to know if you’re making money when you take things like capital depreciation and opportunity cost into account, and sophisticated businesspeople make this mistake all the time. The average driver could easily be fooled until it’s too late. It would be nice if capitalism did correct price discovery here but we’re dealing with a market which has been highly distorted, both from questionable government regulation and taxi monopolies AND from insane startup valuations and investment. The only accountability moment has been the public markets and even then it’s pretty mixed. Uber has overwhelming power over their drivers and if it was actually a good deal for them it would be the first time in the history of labor relations that a company left money on the table out of the goodness of their heart. Does Uber strike you as that company? Yes I use ridesharing when I’m in the SFBA because there’s few other plausible ways to get around. I’m crossing my fingers the whole time that I’m not helping someone dig themselves deeper into a financial hole.
Ekaros 4y ago
Uber and others should really have been punished harshly for dumping. Banned from operating without extra taxes to bring them in line with other operators and fined for billions.

alisonatwork 4y ago

A key point here is that Uber didn't just disrupt taxi cartels, it also undermined public transport services. In places like Miami it even became a sanctioned alternative to bus routes that were cut. To me this is the true long term damage of their VC-funded predatory pricing model.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rawling 4y ago
> In places like Miami it even became a sanctioned alternative to bus routes that were cut. As in... government justified cutting bus services by saying Uber was a viable alternative?
- alisonatwork 4y ago
  Technically, yes. For a while they provided vouchers to reimburse riders for using Uber instead of the public bus system.[0] Now those particular night bus routes have returned to service, but others have been reduced or canceled. This has been happening for the past 10 years or so all over the US.[1] It's not clear if Uber is the primary culprit, but it certainly doesn't help.[2] [0] https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article241822716.html https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article24182271... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/upshot/mystery-of-missing-bus-riders.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/upshot/myster... [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0965856422000945 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096585642...
indymike 4y ago
USA centric answer here: In flyover country, in most cities ride share has been life changing for people that would be stuck using overpriced local taxis (in smaller 80K-150K person cities taxi rates are confiscatory and service is often VERY limited) or terrible public transportation. Terrible meaning, a $2 bus ride that takes three and a half hours (of which 2 hours is sitting in the elemets) out of their day vs. ride share taking 10 minutes and $15. Honestly, I'm not sure where the idea came from that outside some of the largest cities, public transport or taxis even were viable options. Now there's uber/lyft everywhere, because there's always someone with a car who would like to make some money.
- kelnos 4y ago
  That's great, but how does that justify Uber's poor behavior in places like Miami?
  - indymike 4y ago
    Not even trying to justify it.
- alisonatwork 4y ago
  The idea comes from many other countries where 80k-150k cities have public transport services that don't require people to spend 2 hours sitting in the elements waiting for a bus.
- bsder 4y ago
  > USA centric answer here: In flyover country, in most cities ride share has been life changing for people that would be stuck using overpriced local taxis (in smaller 80K-150K person cities taxi rates are confiscatory and service is often VERY limited) or terrible public transportation. And if Uber/Lyft had confined themselves to delivering reliable transport at a reasonable price in Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, etc. people would be singing their praises. But they didn't. Because those places weren't just unprofitable but were wildly unprofitable. Which is stupid because I suspect being a reliable broker between driver and client could still be profitable. Having someone put in "I need to go from A to B at time X." and having a pool of drivers who can go "I'm going to B anyway, so why don't I adjust my time and make some money for doing so." would be a good thing in "flyover" country. However, it won't be venture capital profitable. And that's really the crux of the problem here.

jbullock35 4y ago

> I’ve spoken to various taxi drivers, including current and former Uber drivers, and none of them liked working for Uber. They merely felt trapped. I live in the U.S. I speak to almost all of my rideshare drivers about how they feel about their work. Literally none of them have expressed the feeling that they're trapped. (And not one has said that he would prefer driving a taxi.) They do make criticisms, more of Uber than of Lyft. But the main sentiments that they express are appreciation of scheduling flexibility and of not having a boss.

adra 4y ago
If they can be de-platformed, they have a boss. They just have flexible work hours.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  Being able to work for many platforms means you choose your boss.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Being able to take several drugs means you choose your drug
    - Gunnerhead 4y ago
      This is the second time I see you mentioning drugs in this thread [1], I genuinely don't understand the correlation or the argument you're trying to make? Comment by ClumsyPilot - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048240 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048240
neilk 4y ago
The people who are currently working for Uber think working for Uber is a good deal. You might get similarly positive reviews from the buyers of scratcher lottery tickets. There are a lot of articles from random websites saying that it is a good deal, and given the ease of placing such content I think we should be skeptical. Every time I see an article from a driver, who is not a pro blogger in the space, and who’s done the math, it is usually pretty negative to neutral. https://www.quora.com/Is-driving-for-Uber-worth-the-wear-and-tear-and-mileage-on-my-car https://www.quora.com/Is-driving-for-Uber-worth-the-wear-and... It’s actually really hard to know if you’re making money when you take things like capital depreciation and opportunity cost into account, and sophisticated businesspeople make this mistake all the time. The average driver could easily be fooled until it’s too late. It would be nice if capitalism did correct price discovery here but we’re dealing with a market which has been highly distorted, both from questionable government regulation and taxi monopolies AND from insane startup valuations and investment. The only accountability moment has been the public markets and even then it’s pretty mixed. Uber has overwhelming power over their drivers and if it was actually a good deal for them it would be the first time in the history of labor relations that a company left money on the table out of the goodness of their heart. Does Uber strike you as that company? Yes I use ridesharing when I’m in the SFBA because there’s few other plausible ways to get around. I’m crossing my fingers the whole time that I’m not helping someone dig themselves deeper into a financial hole.

Ekaros 4y ago

Uber and others should really have been punished harshly for dumping. Banned from operating without extra taxes to bring them in line with other operators and fined for billions.