8 ms·

Data leak reveals how European politicians helped Uber

64 points by redm 4y ago

Jensson 4y ago
Why have traditional taxi companies when evidently just having some computers in the cloud can do the same thing for basically free and let the drivers take all the profit? I don't like Uber as a company, but I don't see why we can't have similar services around or why it is wrong to try to change laws to make such services legal?
- mantas 4y ago
  Somebody has to run those „computers in the cloud“. Government-appointed monopoly? Government itself? Which would be interesting, but there could be so many opportunities for corruption...
  - Jensson 4y ago
    The government can run postal services and has done that for centuries, I don't see why they couldn't run this as well. As soon as a reasonable matching algorithm matching driver and passenger is open to the public everyone could easily deploy this wherever they want. Governments aren't good at innovating, but they are great at keeping stable systems running.
    - dewey 4y ago
      I somehow have the feeling that trusting multiple smaller companies with the trip data is a lot better than having a central authority, which is also the government owning all that data in one place.
      - Jensson 4y ago
        Government already runs healthcare, public transit, the telephone net, post etc, what difference does this make? If they want your location data they already got it from your phones network connection. Alternatively they could just regulate the field and set a cap on how much the rideshare app provider can take, ensuring that drivers get most of it and the provider just gets enough to keep the service running. Lots of fields are regulated this way, the important part here is that automation profits shouldn't all end up at a few huge corporations but instead get distributed to the workers.
        mantas 4y ago
        In many cases it's single-payer rather than government-run.
    - mantas 4y ago
      ... and other parcel companies run loops around oldschool postal services now. Coming up with a reasonable matching algorithm would be innovation too in a sense. I doubt current matching algorithms are optimised for anything but operator's profit.
- dewey 4y ago
  It's not only about the "computer" or the software running the matching of passengers to drivers. It's about more boring topics like passenger safety, insurances and education.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    Insurance is compulsory just to drive a car, passenger safety is resolved with the right checks. Both of which a trivial licensing issues. The point, certainly in France since Macron is prominently mentioned, is that traditional taxis are a heavily restrictive corporation. Number of licenses is very limited and they fetch 100k+ euros because drivers can sell their on when they leave the business. Traditionally they obviously only accept cash, fares are expensive, they charge extra by weight for luggage in the boot, phone booking only, etc. None of this is in the interests of consumers and Macron wanted to open up the industry. Like it or not, I think Uber provided the long overdue "kick in the butt" that the taxi industry needed in many countries.
    - dewey 4y ago
      > Insurance is compulsory just to drive a car There's a difference between the regular insurance you have to have for driving a car in most countries and the insurance for transporting people for profit. > passenger safety is resolved with the right checks. Both of which a trivial licensing issues. As it turns out this was not as "trival" as all the startups in this space thought when they bypassed regulation at the beginning.
      - mytailorisrich 4y ago
        Of course there is a difference, but it's trivial and irrelevant. Likewise for safety. If a company/driver operates without a license then it is an issue for the enforcement authority, Uber or no Uber. Again, ultimately the industry needed a kick in the butt and Uber provided it.
mercy_dude 4y ago
Over here in NA, there is a mythological fantasy that Europe has gotten it so right and if only we could be like Europe. Their politics, parliamentary system, equality, social safety net and all of it. The truth of the matter is, Europe is still in the hands of few aristocratic ruling class and those people are just as vulnerable and susceptible to corruption as revealed by these leaks frequently. In fact the endless bureaucracy are set up by the Eurocrats in a manner to satisfy this heirarcy and this small group of people who almost always are fed through chains of connections that are reachable through dark money and lobbying efforts. The sense of equality there is just as abysmal. Just look at their housing market for example. It’s much worse than ours.
a1371 4y ago
While I happily read the BBC quite often, I feel this report is a bit misguided when it suggests that Macron was doing anything wrong. Uber and his ministry were looking at creating a regulatory framework for ride-sharing. The BBC frames this as Macron ignoring illegal activity. I think from Macron's perspective Uber's activity was "unregulated" not "illegal". That's a healthy approach towards change. Otherwise we can't renew our laws. The BBC's view of how politicians and innovators should interact seems to be too narrow. I think Macron can be a role model actually. also yes Travis was a controversial figure, that seems beside the point. Stuff he did elsewhere don't seem to matter here.
- marticode 4y ago
  Agreed. Also the context matters: the taxi lobby is extremely powerful in France and had successfully blocked the market from any competition, extracting an outrageous rent on the back of a licensing system that was terribly designed. They'd block roads and cities at the first sign of change in their market. Unblocking that situation required some discretion otherwise it would have never happened.
sto_hristo 4y ago
I wished Uber succeeded in my country. And by "succeeding" i mean being allowed to enter the market. Can't stand taxis.

64 points by redm 4y ago

Why have traditional taxi companies when evidently just having some computers in the cloud can do the same thing for basically free and let the drivers take all the profit? I don't like Uber as a company, but I don't see why we can't have similar services around or why it is wrong to try to change laws to make such services legal?

mantas 4y ago
Somebody has to run those „computers in the cloud“. Government-appointed monopoly? Government itself? Which would be interesting, but there could be so many opportunities for corruption...
- Jensson 4y ago
  The government can run postal services and has done that for centuries, I don't see why they couldn't run this as well. As soon as a reasonable matching algorithm matching driver and passenger is open to the public everyone could easily deploy this wherever they want. Governments aren't good at innovating, but they are great at keeping stable systems running.
  - dewey 4y ago
    I somehow have the feeling that trusting multiple smaller companies with the trip data is a lot better than having a central authority, which is also the government owning all that data in one place.
    - Jensson 4y ago
      Government already runs healthcare, public transit, the telephone net, post etc, what difference does this make? If they want your location data they already got it from your phones network connection. Alternatively they could just regulate the field and set a cap on how much the rideshare app provider can take, ensuring that drivers get most of it and the provider just gets enough to keep the service running. Lots of fields are regulated this way, the important part here is that automation profits shouldn't all end up at a few huge corporations but instead get distributed to the workers.
      - mantas 4y ago
        In many cases it's single-payer rather than government-run.
  - mantas 4y ago
    ... and other parcel companies run loops around oldschool postal services now. Coming up with a reasonable matching algorithm would be innovation too in a sense. I doubt current matching algorithms are optimised for anything but operator's profit.
dewey 4y ago
It's not only about the "computer" or the software running the matching of passengers to drivers. It's about more boring topics like passenger safety, insurances and education.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  Insurance is compulsory just to drive a car, passenger safety is resolved with the right checks. Both of which a trivial licensing issues. The point, certainly in France since Macron is prominently mentioned, is that traditional taxis are a heavily restrictive corporation. Number of licenses is very limited and they fetch 100k+ euros because drivers can sell their on when they leave the business. Traditionally they obviously only accept cash, fares are expensive, they charge extra by weight for luggage in the boot, phone booking only, etc. None of this is in the interests of consumers and Macron wanted to open up the industry. Like it or not, I think Uber provided the long overdue "kick in the butt" that the taxi industry needed in many countries.
  - dewey 4y ago
    > Insurance is compulsory just to drive a car There's a difference between the regular insurance you have to have for driving a car in most countries and the insurance for transporting people for profit. > passenger safety is resolved with the right checks. Both of which a trivial licensing issues. As it turns out this was not as "trival" as all the startups in this space thought when they bypassed regulation at the beginning.
    - mytailorisrich 4y ago
      Of course there is a difference, but it's trivial and irrelevant. Likewise for safety. If a company/driver operates without a license then it is an issue for the enforcement authority, Uber or no Uber. Again, ultimately the industry needed a kick in the butt and Uber provided it.

mercy_dude 4y ago

Over here in NA, there is a mythological fantasy that Europe has gotten it so right and if only we could be like Europe. Their politics, parliamentary system, equality, social safety net and all of it. The truth of the matter is, Europe is still in the hands of few aristocratic ruling class and those people are just as vulnerable and susceptible to corruption as revealed by these leaks frequently. In fact the endless bureaucracy are set up by the Eurocrats in a manner to satisfy this heirarcy and this small group of people who almost always are fed through chains of connections that are reachable through dark money and lobbying efforts. The sense of equality there is just as abysmal. Just look at their housing market for example. It’s much worse than ours.

a1371 4y ago

While I happily read the BBC quite often, I feel this report is a bit misguided when it suggests that Macron was doing anything wrong. Uber and his ministry were looking at creating a regulatory framework for ride-sharing. The BBC frames this as Macron ignoring illegal activity. I think from Macron's perspective Uber's activity was "unregulated" not "illegal". That's a healthy approach towards change. Otherwise we can't renew our laws. The BBC's view of how politicians and innovators should interact seems to be too narrow. I think Macron can be a role model actually. also yes Travis was a controversial figure, that seems beside the point. Stuff he did elsewhere don't seem to matter here.

marticode 4y ago
Agreed. Also the context matters: the taxi lobby is extremely powerful in France and had successfully blocked the market from any competition, extracting an outrageous rent on the back of a licensing system that was terribly designed. They'd block roads and cities at the first sign of change in their market. Unblocking that situation required some discretion otherwise it would have never happened.

sto_hristo 4y ago

I wished Uber succeeded in my country. And by "succeeding" i mean being allowed to enter the market. Can't stand taxis.