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>Tesla could make an open API at just let whoever capture the profits. Presumably this is supposed to be different from what I said (sharing profits), so are y

>Tesla could make an open API at just let whoever capture the profits. Presumably this is supposed to be different from what I said (sharing profits), so are you suggesting the service provider should take 0%? >Then owners could group together on their own terms to get market power. Thats precisely the part consumers don't want to do (and where Tesla can add value): aggregation and Autobidder.

maxerickson 4y ago
API on the car, not on the service. A way for the owner of the car to control what the car is doing remotely. If there are thousands of dollars on the line, third parties will bid against Tesla...
- schiffern 4y ago
  Thanks. Yes, a more open car API would be welcome. For V1G (ie one-way demand response charging), I'd prefer cars also have a Set It And Forget It option: Always charge immediately to [ 30% ], then charge to [ 80% ] by [ 7 AM ] [ weekdays ]. And then it just Does The Right Thing. For configuring stationary batteries, the equivalent would be: Always reserve [ 40% ] backup, then trade with the grid when payout exceeds [ 20¢/kWh ]. Current generation Tesla systems allow some of this configuration, but not all.
- YZF 4y ago
  I think the API already exists since you can use the phone app (e.g.) to control charging. I haven't looked at this for some time but while the API isn't/wasn't open it's been reverse engineered and I think there's an ecosystem using those APIs (not for this purpose but for other purposes). EDIT: I think in my location all that has to happen for demand to shift is for the power company (BC Hyrdo in this case) to offer different rates. They can do this statically or dynamically and one way or another things will shift. As a person I can figure out to charge my car or heat my house/water or whatnot for a lower cost. I don't think they care.
  - beachy 4y ago
    Your edit is on the money. We switched to a new power company purely based on rates. They offer free power for a 3 hour slot between 9pm and midnight. We spent $2k on hardware to take advantage - a 7kw fast charger for the EV and a clockwork timer for the water tank. In return we could load shift so much that 45% of our power is now free. That's with no other behavior changes (well one small change - family members became aware that having long hot showers in the day meant a lukewarm shower at night). All super simple, and all driven from the bottom up by specific rates.
    - zbrozek 4y ago
      That sounds pretty great. I can't imagine my utility, PG&E, doing the same. Their TOU rates start at about the same as their tiered rates and go up from there. Even under maximal load shifting that plan costs me more than the simpler (yet still complicated) plan. Instead it's more economical for me to drive my grid dependence to zero. I'm one of the "no thanks" folks in the article.
      - beachy 4y ago
        It's fascinating how the economics play out. Thanks to this deal, it no longer makes sense for us to go solar or to have a house battery. So the power company has us as a loyal customer (at least, while they keep offering this deal).
      - schiffern 4y ago
        This is exactly the perverse pricing problem that Tesla (or someone else) can easily solve with aggregation+Autobidder. Tesla knows your utility rate, including the absence or presence of time-of-use billing. They also have access to the real-time market behind the meter. In this position, they can always Do The Right Thing to minimize total cost of EV charging (electric bill minus earned Autobidder revenue). In your case the Right Thing sounds like choosing the tiered PG&E rate, and letting Tesla aggregation pay you for load shifting.
        4y ago
- avianlyric 4y ago
  Every EV already has this API, it’s just exposed to the “charger” not the internet. Because all EV need to negotiate with the charger their plugged into to determine if they can charge, and how fast. It pretty easy to build a charger compatible with any EV that simply caps the cars charging rate until electricity is cheap. Here in Europe at least, there are already several companies that make these chargers, including ones that just MitM the cable between your car and your normal charger, and allow you get better rates though aggregation with other owners.

maxerickson 4y ago

API on the car, not on the service. A way for the owner of the car to control what the car is doing remotely. If there are thousands of dollars on the line, third parties will bid against Tesla...

schiffern 4y ago
Thanks. Yes, a more open car API would be welcome. For V1G (ie one-way demand response charging), I'd prefer cars also have a Set It And Forget It option: Always charge immediately to [ 30% ], then charge to [ 80% ] by [ 7 AM ] [ weekdays ]. And then it just Does The Right Thing. For configuring stationary batteries, the equivalent would be: Always reserve [ 40% ] backup, then trade with the grid when payout exceeds [ 20¢/kWh ]. Current generation Tesla systems allow some of this configuration, but not all.
YZF 4y ago
I think the API already exists since you can use the phone app (e.g.) to control charging. I haven't looked at this for some time but while the API isn't/wasn't open it's been reverse engineered and I think there's an ecosystem using those APIs (not for this purpose but for other purposes). EDIT: I think in my location all that has to happen for demand to shift is for the power company (BC Hyrdo in this case) to offer different rates. They can do this statically or dynamically and one way or another things will shift. As a person I can figure out to charge my car or heat my house/water or whatnot for a lower cost. I don't think they care.
- beachy 4y ago
  Your edit is on the money. We switched to a new power company purely based on rates. They offer free power for a 3 hour slot between 9pm and midnight. We spent $2k on hardware to take advantage - a 7kw fast charger for the EV and a clockwork timer for the water tank. In return we could load shift so much that 45% of our power is now free. That's with no other behavior changes (well one small change - family members became aware that having long hot showers in the day meant a lukewarm shower at night). All super simple, and all driven from the bottom up by specific rates.
  - zbrozek 4y ago
    That sounds pretty great. I can't imagine my utility, PG&E, doing the same. Their TOU rates start at about the same as their tiered rates and go up from there. Even under maximal load shifting that plan costs me more than the simpler (yet still complicated) plan. Instead it's more economical for me to drive my grid dependence to zero. I'm one of the "no thanks" folks in the article.
    - beachy 4y ago
      It's fascinating how the economics play out. Thanks to this deal, it no longer makes sense for us to go solar or to have a house battery. So the power company has us as a loyal customer (at least, while they keep offering this deal).
    - schiffern 4y ago
      This is exactly the perverse pricing problem that Tesla (or someone else) can easily solve with aggregation+Autobidder. Tesla knows your utility rate, including the absence or presence of time-of-use billing. They also have access to the real-time market behind the meter. In this position, they can always Do The Right Thing to minimize total cost of EV charging (electric bill minus earned Autobidder revenue). In your case the Right Thing sounds like choosing the tiered PG&E rate, and letting Tesla aggregation pay you for load shifting.
      - 4y ago
avianlyric 4y ago
Every EV already has this API, it’s just exposed to the “charger” not the internet. Because all EV need to negotiate with the charger their plugged into to determine if they can charge, and how fast. It pretty easy to build a charger compatible with any EV that simply caps the cars charging rate until electricity is cheap. Here in Europe at least, there are already several companies that make these chargers, including ones that just MitM the cable between your car and your normal charger, and allow you get better rates though aggregation with other owners.