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TikTok ‘frog army’ stunt could have grave consequences, experts warn
- dqv 4y agoThe frog army videos are probably fake, see https://www.tiktok.com/@greenerbee/video/7108136947738103045 https://www.tiktok.com/@greenerbee/video/7108136947738103045
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y agoSomehow I doubt the claim that you can get 100 million ladybugs for $75 as the (edit) original post mentioned in the knowyourmeme post claims: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/ladybug-raid https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/ladybug-raid A gallon seems to be commonly listed as 72k-74k insects and seems to typically cost well above $100. I don't think someone released 5 cubic meters of ladybugs for tiktok. And I'm disappointed that journalists from allegedly reputable media simply parrot such claims as "unverified" without pointing out the implausibility. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIWsAIr5mSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIWsAIr5mSg from Knowyourmeme shows what happened a bit better.
- wodenokoto 4y agoYes. The numbers seems vastly exaggerated by the TikTok’ers. But the biologists in the article are concerned not whether or not those examples are hoaxes, but by the oncoming popularity of releasing insects and other animals where they shouldn’t be released.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y agoAgreed; it is likely that the tiktok'er did release some, probably a few thousands.
- pvaldes 4y agoWould be still a big disaster
- Jensson 4y agoWhy? A few thousand ladybugs is like a few thousand flies, there are so many ladybugs already that they wouldn't make a dent. In areas without pesticides you often see hundreds of them sitting and eating the parasites on some bush.
- pvaldes 4y agoBecause alien species mate and reproduce, growing exponentially. Hidding a bomb in a building is a much milder menace that causes a damage once. This would be like using a bomb able to make and disseminate more bombs, each one able to make and disseminate more bombs before exploding. And the iteration runs forever basically.
- bastawhiz 4y agoQuickly googling, 100M ladybugs seems like it would weigh almost 1000lbs. That's just the weight of the bugs: you'd need to package all that safely, and the sheer size would be equivalent to a public works project. The cost would be enormous and the time and resources needed to actually put them somewhere would be incredible. It's not just improbable, it's impossible given the logistics and cost. I'd be surprised if you could even source 100M live ladybugs if you had the resources to buy and handle them.
- gsatic 4y agoCool. Like based trophic cascades. What's next?
- chiefalchemist 4y agoI understand the concern. That said, globalization has products, humans and species moving around the world and no one is calling that into question. Oddly enough, just look at Covid. It was easily spread via travel. But the future threat at fame & follow seeking kids on TikTok?
- mysterydip 4y agoWe're living in an interesting time where things that aren't illegal (because "why would we need a law for that? no one has any incentive to do anything of the sort") are being done because some people now have an incentive.
- 88840-8855 4y agoThere are limits to rule based systems. I always believed that a common sense based system is superior. It should be clear that those things are bad and should not be done. You still do them? Deal with the punishment.
- tyleo 4y agoThis is an interesting comment. I agree that, “there are limits to rule based systems”. I think there is much less potential for abuse though. I don’t know what the solution is. I’d love fore you to be right and judges to have a keen sense of “I know it when I see it”. Something tells me they don’t though. Power is too corrupting.
- pvaldes 4y agoThey feed and target an army of boycotting minors, because minors can't be punished by law in the same way as an adult would be. If things got hairy will flash a "Just Kidding". Very low risks for the people moving the puppets at ten thousands Km of distance, also. But the economic damage is real and persistent.
- 88840-8855 4y agoThis is bad in almost all developed countries. Minors are acting bad and cannot be punished. Understandable that you dont want to put away a minor in a prison and you cannot hurt them financially either. But our systems are too slow to adapt to new modern forms of punishment. You want to punish a minor? Ban all his social media accounts for 3 months, take away the mobile phone and other electronics, ban the phone number, push them to do to social work during holidays. Yet, something something human rights... and we have those brats who are terrible. Just experienced some yesterday. They are simply hostile and feel empowered by their peers. They will grow up at some point, but until that, they must be disciplined.
- macrolime 4y agoReminds me of the American Acclimatization Society. Back in the 1800s some people thought it was nice to bring European flora and fauna over to America. One of the results is a population of hundreds of millions of starlings. For its role in the decline of local native species and the damages to agriculture, the European starling has been included in the IUCN List of the world's 100 worst invasive species. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Acclimatization_Society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Acclimatization_Socie...
- pastrami_panda 4y agoThis is an interesting aspect of information warfare. Several companies have emerged that know how to capitalize on their ability to seed social media groups and create viral trends. You could have a set of trends that are calculated to cause maximum harm to local eco systems. Location based serving makes it easy to disseminate these campaigns to exact locations. This is an incredibly potent weapon and seems it's been flying under the radar for quite some time now.
- tintedfireglass 4y agoNow this seems like a dystopian episode of black mirror :O
- pvaldes 4y agoNot new. Is happening since thousands of years. They just improved it manipulating dumb children to do the dirt job and take all the risk. The genius part is that children will do it just for a pat in the back.
- myself248 4y agoLocation-targeting is the next level, yes. It's been suggested for decades that certain cultural trends are calculated and nurtured to sow division in specific countries. And no matter how much evidence you present, nobody will ever take it seriously.
- wahnfrieden 4y agoHere's a random recent example from last month, Facebook still enabling ongoing genocide via hate speech in targeted ads https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/digital-threats/ethiopia-hate-speech/ https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/digital-threats/e... Not their first platform-enabled genocide (that was years ago), and still not doing anything effectively to mitigate it >This isn’t the first time that we have found that Facebook is unable to detect clear examples of hate speech: earlier this year we found that they were unable to detect Burmese language hate speech directed against the Rohingya minority. These genocides are not Facebook incidentally intersecting with the real world and reflecting its reality... These genocides, in how they have succeeded, would not have been possible without Facebook's implicit cooperation. Facebook's profits off the ads responsible for these atrocities, or conversely the lower ad revenue of these so-called second tier countries that are not Facebook's primary focus (I can find this reference again if requested), are a curious incentive to not eagerly take meaningful action
- pvaldes 4y agoIs educating children into some types of what is social disturbance and economic terrorism basically, taking profit of their rebel phase and greed. People thinks that there is not damage into releasing ladybugs, but is a profoundly wrong idea. If they are Asian Harlequin ladybugs, that predate benefit ladybugs, this... girl?, man disguised as girl?, boy hidden under several identities?... ...this "agent" has taken a lot of trouble to commit an act of environmental terrorism. Purposely or not. The same insect toke the entire UK by assault in just ten years. Once upon a time, biology was a respected science, now all you see are clueless clowns doing the opposite that must be done, because scientists say that is a bad idea. This children are puppets and pawns. Five minutes of laugh and fame, The rest of their lives paying the bill in the shape of increased taxes.
- quattrofan 4y agoThe time has to be approaching to ban under 18s from social media. If we don't i truly fear a mental health catastrophe for the next gen.
- bilsbie 4y agoIt sounds like the frogs are native to his location. Why is the article framing it as invasive species?
- pvaldes 4y agoThey could host ranaviruses, destroying purposely their services to agriculture in entire areas. This is serious money. Children shouldn't be encouraged to mess with the hard work of environmental conservators. In the same way as they should not be encouraged to unscrew and collect things from major engineering works like bridges or railways.
- bilsbie 4y agoMy rule of thumb is if the media wants me to get upset about an issue I try not to.
- swayvil 4y agoDitto. And when the local robot chorus is pushing a story, I know that's something to ignore.
- mrtksn 4y agoSounds like failure in Biology education and people demand control of speech to fix it. I'm very worried of the trend that everyone demands speech control to fix something they see as an issue(be it legitimate issue or not). Netflix makes gay, Google make Woke, Youtube kills people with high voltage currents ,Facebook makes Nazi, TikTok kills the environment - depending on who you ask. I'm really getting very tired of this cancel culture. Destroy something, remove something. Till very recently we had teenagers swatting(the practice of calling armed police with pretext of armed incident) each others when gaming. Is that still a thing? What about actually addressing the core issues and introduce harm prevention mechanisms? I think the problems the social media causes is essentially dependent on something goes big too fast to have proper response. We don't really need to control speech, just need tools to cater to the new reality of fast spreading information. If there's actual damage done, then probably that location needs better environment protection laws and institutions. People were destroying the envoronment way before the social media and that's how we have rules on waste disposal or animal farming.
- dementiapatien 4y ago>I'm very worried of the trend that everyone demands speech control to fix something they see as an issue(be it legitimate issue or not). >Netflix makes gay, Google make Woke, Youtube kills people with high voltage currents ,Facebook makes Nazi, TikTok kills the environment - depending on who you ask. I'm really getting very tired of this cancel culture. Destroy something, remove something Small and independent websites have been taken offline for less. Why should these conglomerates who extinguished the original web be given a free pass? Ban them all, I say.
- mrtksn 4y agoI think small and independent should also not be taken down. I also don't advocate for free pass, I say we shouldn't look for solution in cancellation of people or platforms. Close the website or ban the users should never be our first response. As I said, we should demand tools to counter this. For example, environment protection groups can demand exposure, i.e. a link or a paragraph under the videos of the people who do these questionable things. If this behaviour is an actually damaging thing, reach the kids in school to tell them what's the problem with it.
- dj_mc_merlin 4y agoI find it exceedingly improbable that he has actually bred that many frogs. The 1.4million estimate comes from _him_, on TikTok. None of the videos show anywhere near that amount. Even if they only measured 1cm^3 that'd still be more than a cubic metre of frogs completely packed -- wouldn't fit in his pond. I also do not see the danger of relocation, he has harvested the eggs from the same place he used to breed the frogs. IMO this is just plain alarmist.
- proxysna 4y agoIt was pointed out multiple times that frog guy took footage from random frog videos off youtube. While acts like that are dangerous, this whole thing is blown out of proportion, and guardian is a few weeks too late.
- Someone 4y agoThe claim is 1.4 million eggs that have hatched into tadpoles. For some species of frog, the average number of eggs laid exceeds 10,000. If we’re talking of such a species and all of them were to hatch, that would take less than 140 female frogs.
- mutatio 4y agoUpper ceiling on the Common frog found in the UK is 2000 eggs. So that's 700 females spawning at max capacity. Having lived in areas where these frogs are common, I don't believe the numbers for a second.
- pvaldes 4y agoEven if all went as planned, and we forget all about the epidemic that is killing frogs, we are talking about removing millions of viable eggs from the nature. Eggs from a species in decline and, even worse, bragging about it. Just to pack "millions of them" in a place that can sustain food for, maybe, one hundred tadpoles?. Does not seem like a wise move. Would compromise the success in the breeding areas for nothing. And would be clearly illegal in many countries. Rescuing tadpoles to a pond (in the same area) could be "justified" in a few cases like a temporary mud puddle that is drying really fast, but messing with the ecosystems just for likes is an horrible idea.
- lizardactivist 4y agoI read the article and understand the issues here, but I'm so tired of seeing everything weird, wrong or bad done by someone somewhere using TikTok being used to frame TikTok as evil.
- juanani 4y ago
- dylan604 4y agoAt this time, the platform is less the issue than the fact that humans have fallen for the spell of social media. Because there is no "gatekeeper" or news editor, information can be spread by anyone regardless of how smart/stupid the idea/information is. The more idiotic the idea, the more people tend to let it take hold. TikTok is just the latest to be hit by it. People are the problem. Having said that, the platforms have now learned to amplify the "trending" ideas to ensure more and more see it via algorithmic promotion rather than organic spreading. If one platform's algos are better at promoting crap, does that mean the platform is bad/worse that's the problem, or that people's unsatiable thirst for idiocy is to blame?
- candlemas 4y agoApproximately 2% of frog eggs become tadpoles, 0.8% of tadpoles become froglets, and 0.1% of froglets become mature frogs capable of reproduction. However, these figures vary based on frog species, predation, and habitat. Some favorable environments may see higher average survival rates of 1 – 2%. https://toadsnfrogs.com/how-many-tadpoles-survive/ https://toadsnfrogs.com/how-many-tadpoles-survive/ I don't think his plan is going to work.
- nafizh 4y agoTiktok is a national security threat for US. No idea why they are still letting it operate here given it’s directly controlled by an adversary.
- Shadonototra 4y agolot of anti-tiktok propaganda lately, let's remind ourselves: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/faceboo...
- h2odragon 4y agoI guess that is better than the "TikTok induced epilepsy" they were shouting about a few months ago. Remember when D&D and Heavy Metal music were causing suicides, satanic cults, and mass murders? It's a miracle our species survives innit.
- kumarvvr 4y agoWe are living in a fascinating time, especially because Social Media explosion is happening in parallel across the world. Earlier, technological progress would sprout in developed nations and trickle down to the rest of the developing or under developed world over a period of time. But SM is a beast that is rampaging evenly everywhere. The next decade or so will be a great study in its impact, especially contrasting it across different society stratas and gain valuable insights into human nature and how societal environment directs responses.
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- olivermarks 4y agoBinley Mega Chippy, giant frog army - UK users of TikTok know the tabloids will amplify any idiotic bit of mobile phone video thus giving them user interaction. Tiktok bleeds over onto youtube as well - I'm bombarded by tiktok videos by their algos despite never having shown any interest. (Also the ad for conjoined twins I'm shown everytime I go to youtube on top left). Real idiocracy level behaviors being mined to extract advertising value, including by the Grauniad
- sschueller 4y agoWhy can't we have good tiktok memes like for example planting trees.
- pvaldes 4y agoI was diving a little in the history and is even more interesting, in unsuspected ways. To start, I'm not 100% sure, but the fuzzy ladybugs in the video seem compatible with some of the multiple faces of the Asian ladybug Harmonia. This is bad news. Ladybugs eat other ladybugs eggs as a normal behavior to assure food for their own larvae. For some reason, when native species ate Harmonia eggs they died. Many ladybugs are poisonous and Harmonia is one of them, so researchers searched in vain for poison in the eggs. Finally the culprit was disclosed: Eggs have a bodyguard symbiont that kills the insects that eat them. So this children are not just releasing ladybugs. They are most probably spreading also a lethal parasite of the native species of ladybugs that protect our crops. Another dire warning of why environmental management and ecology must be left to professionals.