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> Under what circumstances do we investigate the death of a newborn as a criminal matter today? Are you absolutely sure you want to apply the same standard? Do

• josephcsible 4y ago
  > When the power of the state stepped in to force the pregnancy to continue, they took responsibility for the life of the person. If the state stops someone from killing me, do they take responsibility for my life from then on too? > Do you believe that people should be able to have sex without getting pregnant? Is preventing the fertilization of the egg an acceptable way to prevent the "intentional killing of a baby"? I think both of those should remain legal. > Should the power of the state enforce your belief about contraception? No. > Is preventing the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterine wall acceptable? No. Once the egg gets fertilized, it's too late for contraception to work, and anything from then on that appears to be contraception is actually just a very early term abortion. > Should the power of the state step in here? Yes. > At what point in the act of intimacy should the power of the state be enforced? Once conception (i.e., fertizilation) has occurred.
  • csours 4y ago
    > If the state stops someone from killing me, do they take responsibility for my life from then on too? Do you really believe this is equivalent? You can't see any distinction here? > Once conception (i.e., fertizilation) has occurred. Do you know the percentage of fertilized eggs that make it to the uterine wall? That make it through the first week of pregnancy? That make it through the first trimester? Should couples register their fertilized eggs with the government so they can be tracked?
    • josephcsible 4y ago
      > Do you really believe this is equivalent? You can't see any distinction here? I assume the distinction that you want me to draw is that I'm an independent adult, and the baby isn't. Consider instead, then, if the government saved a toddler's life. Unless the parents died, or were themselves trying to commit the murder and so are now in jail, responsibility for the child in the future will remain with them and not with the government. > Do you know the percentage of fertilized eggs that make it to the uterine wall? That make it through the first week of pregnancy? That make it through the first trimester? I know it's low. But the fact that natural deaths are common in a certain situation doesn't automatically make intentional killings in that situation okay. For example, even though the survival rate of Zaire ebolavirus is only 10-17%, it's still murder if you kill someone who has Ebola. > Should couples register their fertilized eggs with the government so they can be tracked? No, we don't need more government tracking, and the right to life shouldn't be conditional on being tracked by the government.
      • csours 4y ago
        > I know it's low. Which brings me back to my original question: When should a miscarriage be investigated by the government. Not "when does life start". Not "is abortion morally wrong". Not "is abortion murder". When should the government get involved? If 50% of fertilized eggs are naturally lost in the first week, how do you decide which should be investigated by the government? Should the government be examining women for IUDs? > Unless the parents died, or were themselves trying to commit the murder and so are now in jail, responsibility for the child in the future will remain with them and not with the government. So the mother carries the baby to term. Can she simply leave the hospital without paying after giving birth? Does she have to take the baby home? Does she have to love the baby? Does the government get to enforce that too?