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I've been driving through The Netherlands recently. It's so scary how everybody drives so close to each other because of the speed limit 100kph during the day.

I've been driving through The Netherlands recently. It's so scary how everybody drives so close to each other because of the speed limit 100kph during the day. Bumper to bumper. I feel less safe on the highway in The Netherlands than at the race track with no speed limit.

shadowofneptune 4y ago
That's around the top limit in most US cities. I don't see how tailgating is an outcome of driving at the limit.
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  The problem is, the way I see it, everyone wants to be one car ahead. So they all try to push each other out of the way. It wasn’t like that when the limit was higher. Lower limit, people tend to get closer. I don’t see this _so often_ in Germany, neither in Belgium.
Kim_Bruning 4y ago
They're supposed to keep 2 seconds distance. (At 100 km/h that's ~28m or so) . Is that not the actual distance kept?
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  Definitely not. 28 meters is roughly 5 car length. That’s not what I experience in The Netherlands, especially during rush hour. Bumper to bumper with zero visibility two cars ahead.
- iggldiggl 4y ago
  Erm, 100 km/h / (3.6 (km/h)/(m/s)) * 2 sec ≈ 56 m. (And the rule of thumb you learn in driving school is dividing the speed in km/h by two.)
cameronh90 4y ago
Feeling less safe is only weakly correlated with being less safe. We're not very good judges of risk. Urban "traffic calming" design attempts to exploit this by trying to engineer roads that feel claustrophobic, causing drivers to slow down. Since kinetic energy is a square of velocity, slowing cars down - even a little - both significantly increases the chance of surviving a crash and also makes it more likely you'll stop in time to avoid the crash in the first place. Also interestingly, lower limits often reduce congestion and increase total road capacity. I'm not sure how safety at the race track works out, but skilled, predictable drivers in well maintained vehicles with race marshalls and huge run off areas probably makes any comparison awkward.
- rad_gruchalski 4y ago
  > Also interestingly, lower limits often reduce congestion and increase total road capacity. Exactly. People driving closer and paying even less attention because “driving slower”. Lack of attention and driving skill is what leads to accidents, not speed. I do need to say, though, the speed limit in the city, between pedestrians, I personally treat as saint. But outside of the city, especially when there’s almost nobody around, well, that depends but never reckless. > I'm not sure how safety at the race track works out, but skilled, predictable drivers in well maintained vehicles with race marshalls and huge run off areas probably makes any comparison awkward. The only race track I’m familiar with, is the Nordschleife. Not much run offs there.

shadowofneptune 4y ago

That's around the top limit in most US cities. I don't see how tailgating is an outcome of driving at the limit.

rad_gruchalski 4y ago
The problem is, the way I see it, everyone wants to be one car ahead. So they all try to push each other out of the way. It wasn’t like that when the limit was higher. Lower limit, people tend to get closer. I don’t see this _so often_ in Germany, neither in Belgium.

Kim_Bruning 4y ago

They're supposed to keep 2 seconds distance. (At 100 km/h that's ~28m or so) . Is that not the actual distance kept?

rad_gruchalski 4y ago
Definitely not. 28 meters is roughly 5 car length. That’s not what I experience in The Netherlands, especially during rush hour. Bumper to bumper with zero visibility two cars ahead.
iggldiggl 4y ago
Erm, 100 km/h / (3.6 (km/h)/(m/s)) * 2 sec ≈ 56 m. (And the rule of thumb you learn in driving school is dividing the speed in km/h by two.)

cameronh90 4y ago

Feeling less safe is only weakly correlated with being less safe. We're not very good judges of risk. Urban "traffic calming" design attempts to exploit this by trying to engineer roads that feel claustrophobic, causing drivers to slow down. Since kinetic energy is a square of velocity, slowing cars down - even a little - both significantly increases the chance of surviving a crash and also makes it more likely you'll stop in time to avoid the crash in the first place. Also interestingly, lower limits often reduce congestion and increase total road capacity. I'm not sure how safety at the race track works out, but skilled, predictable drivers in well maintained vehicles with race marshalls and huge run off areas probably makes any comparison awkward.

rad_gruchalski 4y ago
> Also interestingly, lower limits often reduce congestion and increase total road capacity. Exactly. People driving closer and paying even less attention because “driving slower”. Lack of attention and driving skill is what leads to accidents, not speed. I do need to say, though, the speed limit in the city, between pedestrians, I personally treat as saint. But outside of the city, especially when there’s almost nobody around, well, that depends but never reckless. > I'm not sure how safety at the race track works out, but skilled, predictable drivers in well maintained vehicles with race marshalls and huge run off areas probably makes any comparison awkward. The only race track I’m familiar with, is the Nordschleife. Not much run offs there.