8 ms·

What about Java?

Pokepokalypse 4y ago
You mean: Oracle™ Java®.
bioemerl 4y ago
Unless I'm wrong, my understanding is that Java is just kind of a bad language. What makes C# great is how heavily it has leaned towards functional programming. Java, As far as I understand, is still very object-oriented and very clumsy. Kotlin, as far as I understand, fixes those issues.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  >> Java, As far as I understand, is still very object-oriented and very clumsy. How much modern Java have you read or written recently? Modern Java supports functional programming and is not as clumsy as it used to be: https://betterprogramming.pub/functional-programming-in-java-explained-ae396e9e516f https://betterprogramming.pub/functional-programming-in-java... Java also has better cross-platform support than C#.
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    What is Java's equivalent of Xamarin or Avalonia? How do I run Java on iOS?
    - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
      >> What is Java's equivalent of Xamarin or Avalonia? Xamarin - RoboVM was a Java-based competitor to Xamarin which Xamarin acquired in 2015, but it was shutdown in 2017 after Microsoft acquired Xamarin. There are some Java-based toolkits such as https://www.codenameone.com/ https://www.codenameone.com/ that target mobile, but they are probably not as well funded as Xamarin has been under Microsoft. From what I hear Xamarin will be deprecated and replaced by MAUI. Avalonia - Java has had multiplatform windowing for much longer than C# has. The Java Swing toolkit has been part of Java for more than a decade and is still supported in OpenJDK. JavaFX (https://openjfx.io/ https://openjfx.io/) is a newer toolkit that was originally part of Java and was later spun out into its own project. How well are Xamarin and Avalonia supported if you are doing C# development on Mac or Linux? >> How do I run Java on iOS? As stated above, some tools such as https://www.codenameone.com/ https://www.codenameone.com/ and https://github.com/google/j2objc https://github.com/google/j2objc that convert Java code to target iOS. I have never tried using those tools so I am not sure how good they are.
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        Xamarin was quite descent even before Microsoft. MAUI (from little I saw) looks like a rewrite of Xamarin Forms, but the rest is basically Xamarin with terrible name. Neither codenameone nor j2objc seem to be anywhere close in terms of features (including tooling).
        invalidname 4y ago
        Codename One is more like flutter with a few other things tucked on top. Since it integrates with maven etc. it works with Javas native tooling out of the box. I'd argue it's way ahead of Xamarin.
        lostmsu 4y ago
        How's debugging in Codename?
        invalidname 4y ago
        Just like debugging in Java since it works as a simulator. Everything you can do in the Java debugger you can do in Codename One. For on-device debugging you can translate the code to an OS native project and debug directly using the native tooling xcode/Android Studio.
  - bioemerl 4y ago
    I have heard it's catching up with C#, but the implementation in that link where you have a person model and you have to write a function just to get/set a string turns me away. That said, there's actually some interesting stuff in that link. The ability to assign an anonymous class to an interface is super fascinating. But if I'm starting new, My understanding is that Kotlin is superior in almost every way.
- nequo 4y ago
  You don’t need to write your code in Java for it to run on the JVM. You can write functional code in Clojure and use libraries written in Java.
kbenson 4y ago
Ah, Oracle, the last bastion of restraint, good sense, and companionship with open source. /s
- cabraca 4y ago
  while i understand your sentiment, over the last few years java became a lot less oracle-centric. JavaEE moved to Eclipse Foundation, openjdk became a reliable open source alternative to the oracle version, a lot more companies are involved in the development process. yeah, oracle still provides a lot of manpower but it moves in an overall positive direction.
  - bioemerl 4y ago
    This is part of the reason I'd be all right to move to something that relies on the JDK. I had heard this before when people were talking about how c sharp has gone open source.
  - kbenson 4y ago
    I understand and mostly agree, but as a solution to someone that stated "Go is Google. Enough said." they might not find it sufficient...

What about Java?

You mean: Oracle™ Java®.

Unless I'm wrong, my understanding is that Java is just kind of a bad language. What makes C# great is how heavily it has leaned towards functional programming. Java, As far as I understand, is still very object-oriented and very clumsy. Kotlin, as far as I understand, fixes those issues.

thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
>> Java, As far as I understand, is still very object-oriented and very clumsy. How much modern Java have you read or written recently? Modern Java supports functional programming and is not as clumsy as it used to be: https://betterprogramming.pub/functional-programming-in-java-explained-ae396e9e516f https://betterprogramming.pub/functional-programming-in-java... Java also has better cross-platform support than C#.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  What is Java's equivalent of Xamarin or Avalonia? How do I run Java on iOS?
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    >> What is Java's equivalent of Xamarin or Avalonia? Xamarin - RoboVM was a Java-based competitor to Xamarin which Xamarin acquired in 2015, but it was shutdown in 2017 after Microsoft acquired Xamarin. There are some Java-based toolkits such as https://www.codenameone.com/ https://www.codenameone.com/ that target mobile, but they are probably not as well funded as Xamarin has been under Microsoft. From what I hear Xamarin will be deprecated and replaced by MAUI. Avalonia - Java has had multiplatform windowing for much longer than C# has. The Java Swing toolkit has been part of Java for more than a decade and is still supported in OpenJDK. JavaFX (https://openjfx.io/ https://openjfx.io/) is a newer toolkit that was originally part of Java and was later spun out into its own project. How well are Xamarin and Avalonia supported if you are doing C# development on Mac or Linux? >> How do I run Java on iOS? As stated above, some tools such as https://www.codenameone.com/ https://www.codenameone.com/ and https://github.com/google/j2objc https://github.com/google/j2objc that convert Java code to target iOS. I have never tried using those tools so I am not sure how good they are.
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      Xamarin was quite descent even before Microsoft. MAUI (from little I saw) looks like a rewrite of Xamarin Forms, but the rest is basically Xamarin with terrible name. Neither codenameone nor j2objc seem to be anywhere close in terms of features (including tooling).
      - invalidname 4y ago
        Codename One is more like flutter with a few other things tucked on top. Since it integrates with maven etc. it works with Javas native tooling out of the box. I'd argue it's way ahead of Xamarin.
        lostmsu 4y ago
        How's debugging in Codename?
        invalidname 4y ago
        Just like debugging in Java since it works as a simulator. Everything you can do in the Java debugger you can do in Codename One. For on-device debugging you can translate the code to an OS native project and debug directly using the native tooling xcode/Android Studio.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  I have heard it's catching up with C#, but the implementation in that link where you have a person model and you have to write a function just to get/set a string turns me away. That said, there's actually some interesting stuff in that link. The ability to assign an anonymous class to an interface is super fascinating. But if I'm starting new, My understanding is that Kotlin is superior in almost every way.
nequo 4y ago
You don’t need to write your code in Java for it to run on the JVM. You can write functional code in Clojure and use libraries written in Java.

kbenson 4y ago

Ah, Oracle, the last bastion of restraint, good sense, and companionship with open source. /s

cabraca 4y ago
while i understand your sentiment, over the last few years java became a lot less oracle-centric. JavaEE moved to Eclipse Foundation, openjdk became a reliable open source alternative to the oracle version, a lot more companies are involved in the development process. yeah, oracle still provides a lot of manpower but it moves in an overall positive direction.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  This is part of the reason I'd be all right to move to something that relies on the JDK. I had heard this before when people were talking about how c sharp has gone open source.
- kbenson 4y ago
  I understand and mostly agree, but as a solution to someone that stated "Go is Google. Enough said." they might not find it sufficient...