3 ms·

Indeed, it’s not a proof. Deciding to buy and ingest alcohol (then neurons firing in certain ways, etc.) doesn’t violate a possible non-physicalist take in whic

Indeed, it’s not a proof. Deciding to buy and ingest alcohol (then neurons firing in certain ways, etc.) doesn’t violate a possible non-physicalist take in which the perception of that happening is a map of the territory that is your consciousness.

Retric 4y ago
You can get drunk without realizing your drinking alcohol which means it’s more complicated than simple observation and expectation. Keep trying to cover all the edge cases and you can end up with a god like collective unconscious that just happens to simulate the physical laws the way we currently expect even before humanity was aware of them. Which is undetectable dragon in your garage territory.
- strogonoff 4y ago
  > You can get drunk without realizing your drinking alcohol There’s been a conscious choice to produce alcohol and put it in your drink. > Keep trying to cover all the edge cases As if you don’t have any. Complexity of the territory aside, does this make more magic leaps than, say, mind-body dualism or discarding the one single thing directly accessible as an illusion? > simulate the physical laws the way we currently expect even before humanity was aware of them Our consciousness devises models to describe the perceived time-space that’s ultimately an artifact of consciousness itself. Though they seem to be useful, it’s up in the air whether they model the territory or the map, or what is the territory.
  - Retric 4y ago
    > There’s been a conscious choice to produce alcohol and put it in your drink. Fruits etc can easily ferment without you realizing it. So people aren't necessarily aware they are adding alcohol not are you nessiarily aware you are drinking it. > As if you don’t have any. The material world explanation has zero edge cases it's completely self consistent.
    - strogonoff 4y ago
      > Fruits etc can easily ferment Replace “alcohol” with “alcohol from fermented fruit” > The material world explanation has zero edge cases it's completely self consistent. The explanation of how consciousness arises from material world? Indulge me.
      - Retric 4y ago
        > Replace “alcohol” with “alcohol from fermented fruit” That’s different, someone can be aware of fruit but not the alcohol within it. To assume they are interchangeable is it to make assumptions about what’s going on. > The explanation of how consciousness arises from material world? Consciousness is a product of the physical world. That's the theory and explanation.
        strogonoff 4y ago
        > That’s different, someone can be aware of fruit but not the alcohol within it. To assume they are interchangeable is it to make assumptions about what’s going on. I don’t follow. Perhaps you’re confusing awareness with consciousness. > Consciousness is a product of the physical world. That's the theory and explanation. Ladies and gentlemen, behold the sophistication of physicalist takes. The hard problem, solved right in front of our eyes.
        Retric 4y ago
        > Perhaps you’re confusing awareness with consciousness. Nope, you are. Being conscious doesn't imply absolute awareness of everything. A conscious entity can do something without total to understand everything in all of existence across all space and time. If I make something without alcohol and by the time you drink it it has alcohol then how am I supposed to know you where going to wait/it’s delayed in the mail or whatever. > The hard problem, solved Why assume it’s a hard problem? If you ask what 1 + 1 is don’t expect a long answer.
        4y ago

Retric 4y ago

You can get drunk without realizing your drinking alcohol which means it’s more complicated than simple observation and expectation. Keep trying to cover all the edge cases and you can end up with a god like collective unconscious that just happens to simulate the physical laws the way we currently expect even before humanity was aware of them. Which is undetectable dragon in your garage territory.

strogonoff 4y ago
> You can get drunk without realizing your drinking alcohol There’s been a conscious choice to produce alcohol and put it in your drink. > Keep trying to cover all the edge cases As if you don’t have any. Complexity of the territory aside, does this make more magic leaps than, say, mind-body dualism or discarding the one single thing directly accessible as an illusion? > simulate the physical laws the way we currently expect even before humanity was aware of them Our consciousness devises models to describe the perceived time-space that’s ultimately an artifact of consciousness itself. Though they seem to be useful, it’s up in the air whether they model the territory or the map, or what is the territory.
- Retric 4y ago
  > There’s been a conscious choice to produce alcohol and put it in your drink. Fruits etc can easily ferment without you realizing it. So people aren't necessarily aware they are adding alcohol not are you nessiarily aware you are drinking it. > As if you don’t have any. The material world explanation has zero edge cases it's completely self consistent.
  - strogonoff 4y ago
    > Fruits etc can easily ferment Replace “alcohol” with “alcohol from fermented fruit” > The material world explanation has zero edge cases it's completely self consistent. The explanation of how consciousness arises from material world? Indulge me.
    - Retric 4y ago
      > Replace “alcohol” with “alcohol from fermented fruit” That’s different, someone can be aware of fruit but not the alcohol within it. To assume they are interchangeable is it to make assumptions about what’s going on. > The explanation of how consciousness arises from material world? Consciousness is a product of the physical world. That's the theory and explanation.
      - strogonoff 4y ago
        > That’s different, someone can be aware of fruit but not the alcohol within it. To assume they are interchangeable is it to make assumptions about what’s going on. I don’t follow. Perhaps you’re confusing awareness with consciousness. > Consciousness is a product of the physical world. That's the theory and explanation. Ladies and gentlemen, behold the sophistication of physicalist takes. The hard problem, solved right in front of our eyes.
        Retric 4y ago
        > Perhaps you’re confusing awareness with consciousness. Nope, you are. Being conscious doesn't imply absolute awareness of everything. A conscious entity can do something without total to understand everything in all of existence across all space and time. If I make something without alcohol and by the time you drink it it has alcohol then how am I supposed to know you where going to wait/it’s delayed in the mail or whatever. > The hard problem, solved Why assume it’s a hard problem? If you ask what 1 + 1 is don’t expect a long answer.
        4y ago