3 ms·

> Here, we leverage the connection between depression and language to investigate whether societies as a whole, similar to individuals with depression, can unde

> Here, we leverage the connection between depression and language to investigate whether societies as a whole, similar to individuals with depression, can undergo changes in their collective language that are associated with cognitive distortions. ... > We caution that we make no causal claims with respect to the relationship between lexical markers, cognitive distortions, and internalizing disorders, and the above comments therefore constitute speculations that we hope may inspire follow-up research. Hmm, sure seems like exactly what they are trying to imply is that whole societies can be diagnosed with depression by lexical analysis. Meanwhile, I'm not even sure what it means to say that a society has depression. Feels like there is indeed follow-up research to do on this, though I'd have liked if it were done first.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
> Meanwhile, I'm not even sure what it means to say that a society has depression. This is a key question. I'll take a punt: It's not that a societal depression is the sum total of individuals feeling glum. To say "society is in depression" is more like economic depression, rather than "everyone in society is depressed" (though that might be a consequence). In a depressed society things stop functioning. Like institutions, health, education, law... In an economic depression it's a "chemical imbalance" of money not circulating. In a societal depression it's a breakdown of ideas circulating (and that includes "ideologies" and "emotional ideas" like generosity, and diversity. There are many enemies of intellectual life that corrode innovation, hope, vision and the life-blood a civilisation needs to flourish (as opposed to soulless technocratic subsistence). The Greeks called that force Thanatos. I do believe its ascendency is connected to technology and our inability to master it. Valery Legasov, like myself, was a stanch opponent of the folly of "technological determinism" and said that "people must take control of technology, not the other about about, if civilisation is to survive" [1]. [1] In reaction to the Chernobyl disaster.
- karaterobot 4y ago
  But none of that is established in the literature they're drawing from when they say that certain n-grams are associated with cognitive distortions related to depression. When they say 'cognitive distortion', they're very specifically talking about depression in the psychological sense, not the economic sense, or the cultural sense. That's why they'd have to establish that whole societies functioned like individuals — not in a poetic sense, but in a literal sense. Very hard to do that, and nobody has to my knowledge. This is the kind of thing you could say in an opinion piece, but not a research paper.
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    > That's why they'd have to establish that whole societies functioned like individuals — not in a poetic sense, but in a literal sense. Very hard to do that, and nobody has to my knowledge. Indeed. I'm (hopefully) clearly extending the interpretation well beyond the scope of that paper, which I took on face value to be unsatisfactory. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "establish" but the analog of "society of mind" (not just Minsky's take) as emergent of faculties at both neurological and human organisational levels is old and appears in many forms throughout philosophy and political theory. "Poetry" would be the highest complement, but alas I am too clumsy with words for that.

nonrandomstring 4y ago

> Meanwhile, I'm not even sure what it means to say that a society has depression. This is a key question. I'll take a punt: It's not that a societal depression is the sum total of individuals feeling glum. To say "society is in depression" is more like economic depression, rather than "everyone in society is depressed" (though that might be a consequence). In a depressed society things stop functioning. Like institutions, health, education, law... In an economic depression it's a "chemical imbalance" of money not circulating. In a societal depression it's a breakdown of ideas circulating (and that includes "ideologies" and "emotional ideas" like generosity, and diversity. There are many enemies of intellectual life that corrode innovation, hope, vision and the life-blood a civilisation needs to flourish (as opposed to soulless technocratic subsistence). The Greeks called that force Thanatos. I do believe its ascendency is connected to technology and our inability to master it. Valery Legasov, like myself, was a stanch opponent of the folly of "technological determinism" and said that "people must take control of technology, not the other about about, if civilisation is to survive" [1]. [1] In reaction to the Chernobyl disaster.

karaterobot 4y ago
But none of that is established in the literature they're drawing from when they say that certain n-grams are associated with cognitive distortions related to depression. When they say 'cognitive distortion', they're very specifically talking about depression in the psychological sense, not the economic sense, or the cultural sense. That's why they'd have to establish that whole societies functioned like individuals — not in a poetic sense, but in a literal sense. Very hard to do that, and nobody has to my knowledge. This is the kind of thing you could say in an opinion piece, but not a research paper.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  > That's why they'd have to establish that whole societies functioned like individuals — not in a poetic sense, but in a literal sense. Very hard to do that, and nobody has to my knowledge. Indeed. I'm (hopefully) clearly extending the interpretation well beyond the scope of that paper, which I took on face value to be unsatisfactory. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "establish" but the analog of "society of mind" (not just Minsky's take) as emergent of faculties at both neurological and human organisational levels is old and appears in many forms throughout philosophy and political theory. "Poetry" would be the highest complement, but alas I am too clumsy with words for that.