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I'd like to think that more than a few people grasp this. He's some kind of machine - in the best, complimentary way. His replies to emails are succinct, helpfu

I'd like to think that more than a few people grasp this. He's some kind of machine - in the best, complimentary way. His replies to emails are succinct, helpful, educational, and still personable. No idea how he retains his equanimity across hundreds/thousands of interactions, mostly with strangers. IMO it's a worthwhile lesson (and a free one) to peruse his comment history: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dang https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dang Respect and many thanks, dang.

touisteur 4y ago
I like to think he's some kind of monk, a zen master of human forums, and a genuinely good person. At least any exchange I had with him or observed with all kinds of people have been full of humanity, while firm in his mission. I don't know how he does it, and I wish we'd celebrate him and people like him far more.
- samizdis 4y ago
  I posted a link elsewhere in this thread to this article [1] - The lonely work of moderating Hacker News (2019) - and you might like its author's insights/views, plus there are plentiful quotes from Dang and his colleague, Scott Bell. [edit to add: a comment in reply to this says that Scott no longer works at HN. Surely Dang can't be doing this solo nowadays?] [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/the-lonely-work-of-moderating-hacker-news https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/th...
  - touisteur 4y ago
    Thanks for this. It makes me hopeful that we can find people and a process to keep things civil and somehow engaging in such a forum. Sure HN has its pains (and I'm an unconditional of the late n-gate site) but they don't come from moderation shenanigans. I also appreciate the pedagogy I often see. Some participants here have never been actively moderated and dang takes the time to explain as if the moderated person was one of the 10000 of the day.
  - frosted-flakes 4y ago
    It's just Dan now, I think. Scott no longer works for HN.
- interestica 4y ago
  I've always just hoped that he's not just one person.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dahart 4y ago
I honestly wonder sometimes how it’s physically possible to do what dang does, it seems like such an enormous and Sisyphean task. Sad to see twitter replies complaining about the moderation, because if it wasn’t for the moderation the quality here would be much lower, the moderation is the whole reason those people are attracted to participating here. Respect and many thanks indeed.
- krapp 4y ago
  I wonder if this is a sign that they need more moderators. Given how much moderation is done by the community, I'm surprised dang needs to work as hard as he seems to.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  As someone that moderated a … pithy … community site, I am all too familiar with that type of complaint. I would regularly get called a “nazi,” because I would step into catfights, and break them up, or “nip them in the bud.” Once you’ve been doing it a while, you learn to smell trouble brewing, and it can escalate rapidly. Many folks chafe at restrictions, and they may actually be correct. They, themselves, may be entirely trustworthy; but others may not. Generally, we’re all for rules and structure, as long as they apply to others (especially those with whom we disagree), but they shouldn’t apply to us. I participate in HN, quite a bit. I basically avoid all other social media. A big reason is the decorum, here. If it dissolves, then I will no longer participate. I’ve been “danged” a few times. In some cases, I felt that it was not what I considered “reasonable,” but I accept the slaps anyway. When in an Italian city, wear a bedsheet, and all that…
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    I only recall getting danged once and it was spot-on. I wasn’t acting like a full on flaming ass, but there was at least a glowing ember there and he phrased his response in a way that made it easy to accept.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
xbar 4y ago
Echo'd. Respect and many thanks, dang. Paul really should fund an AI startup focused on chatboard moderation based solely on learnings-from-dang.
- tomcam 4y ago
  Is the one thing we’ve learned that you need multiple human (or one dang) mods for a successful social media sites?
tyjen 4y ago
Yep, dang is amazing.
TameAntelope 4y ago
I get a very different sense from the reading of his comments to users; curt and inconsiderate. He tends to make declarations about behavior that sound objective but are really just his very casual read of a situation, and there’s no appeal or redress possible. Additionally, he tends to favor the original aggressor, ignoring the concept of instigation to fix the proximate cause of the negative interactions here. Don’t get caught punching second, in other words. It’s classic utilitarianism; if 1% of users get shat upon by dang, and 99% in any way benefit from his negative behavior, I suppose the folks here would be alright with that?
- lolinder 4y ago
  > Additionally, he tends to favor the original aggressor, ignoring the concept of instigation to fix the proximate cause of the negative interactions here. Don’t get caught punching second, in other words. Can you give an example? I just went through dang's comments in the last few days and found nothing of the sort, and it has not been my experience at all, unless posting an unpopular opinion counts as instigation. Dang's pattern, every time I've been witness to his moderation, is to cut the first comment that descends into incivility or flaming. Conversations on HN sometimes get heated. Some people take people disagreeing with them as a personal attack and quickly descend into actual personal attacks in response. Those people may feel like they're being singled out by dang, but it's because they actually are misbehaving.
  - TameAntelope 4y ago
    Look at his post history, you can see plenty of examples. A pattern he follows very commonly is seen here [0]: "Can you stop doing $thing?" However, it's dang's opinion that $thing is occurring, and he makes zero effort to understand why $thing could even be happening, and further entertains zero challenges to his interpretation of what has taken place. It's, "stop doing $thing, which is definitely happening, or else I will ban you." Here's another good example of dang handling moderation poorly [1]: he spends zero time explaining the situation, zero time listening to the perspective of the "accused", and simply, curtly, dismisses that person from the site. Ironically, dang's intervention is often the most toxic behavior in a comment chain, and these examples are what I found in just the past two hours. There are thousands, or more, people treated this way, and instead of concern, praise is constantly dumped on him, like what he's doing is some incredible or even desirable behavior! The assumption is the site is better off without these people he treats poorly on it, but I doubt any rigor has been placed on that assumption whatsoever. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039759 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039501

touisteur 4y ago

I like to think he's some kind of monk, a zen master of human forums, and a genuinely good person. At least any exchange I had with him or observed with all kinds of people have been full of humanity, while firm in his mission. I don't know how he does it, and I wish we'd celebrate him and people like him far more.

samizdis 4y ago
I posted a link elsewhere in this thread to this article [1] - The lonely work of moderating Hacker News (2019) - and you might like its author's insights/views, plus there are plentiful quotes from Dang and his colleague, Scott Bell. [edit to add: a comment in reply to this says that Scott no longer works at HN. Surely Dang can't be doing this solo nowadays?] [1] https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/the-lonely-work-of-moderating-hacker-news https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/th...
- touisteur 4y ago
  Thanks for this. It makes me hopeful that we can find people and a process to keep things civil and somehow engaging in such a forum. Sure HN has its pains (and I'm an unconditional of the late n-gate site) but they don't come from moderation shenanigans. I also appreciate the pedagogy I often see. Some participants here have never been actively moderated and dang takes the time to explain as if the moderated person was one of the 10000 of the day.
- frosted-flakes 4y ago
  It's just Dan now, I think. Scott no longer works for HN.
interestica 4y ago
I've always just hoped that he's not just one person.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

dahart 4y ago

I honestly wonder sometimes how it’s physically possible to do what dang does, it seems like such an enormous and Sisyphean task. Sad to see twitter replies complaining about the moderation, because if it wasn’t for the moderation the quality here would be much lower, the moderation is the whole reason those people are attracted to participating here. Respect and many thanks indeed.

krapp 4y ago
I wonder if this is a sign that they need more moderators. Given how much moderation is done by the community, I'm surprised dang needs to work as hard as he seems to.
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
As someone that moderated a … pithy … community site, I am all too familiar with that type of complaint. I would regularly get called a “nazi,” because I would step into catfights, and break them up, or “nip them in the bud.” Once you’ve been doing it a while, you learn to smell trouble brewing, and it can escalate rapidly. Many folks chafe at restrictions, and they may actually be correct. They, themselves, may be entirely trustworthy; but others may not. Generally, we’re all for rules and structure, as long as they apply to others (especially those with whom we disagree), but they shouldn’t apply to us. I participate in HN, quite a bit. I basically avoid all other social media. A big reason is the decorum, here. If it dissolves, then I will no longer participate. I’ve been “danged” a few times. In some cases, I felt that it was not what I considered “reasonable,” but I accept the slaps anyway. When in an Italian city, wear a bedsheet, and all that…
- sokoloff 4y ago
  I only recall getting danged once and it was spot-on. I wasn’t acting like a full on flaming ass, but there was at least a glowing ember there and he phrased his response in a way that made it easy to accept.
  - ryandrake 4y ago

xbar 4y ago

Echo'd. Respect and many thanks, dang. Paul really should fund an AI startup focused on chatboard moderation based solely on learnings-from-dang.

tomcam 4y ago
Is the one thing we’ve learned that you need multiple human (or one dang) mods for a successful social media sites?

tyjen 4y ago

Yep, dang is amazing.

TameAntelope 4y ago

I get a very different sense from the reading of his comments to users; curt and inconsiderate. He tends to make declarations about behavior that sound objective but are really just his very casual read of a situation, and there’s no appeal or redress possible. Additionally, he tends to favor the original aggressor, ignoring the concept of instigation to fix the proximate cause of the negative interactions here. Don’t get caught punching second, in other words. It’s classic utilitarianism; if 1% of users get shat upon by dang, and 99% in any way benefit from his negative behavior, I suppose the folks here would be alright with that?

lolinder 4y ago
> Additionally, he tends to favor the original aggressor, ignoring the concept of instigation to fix the proximate cause of the negative interactions here. Don’t get caught punching second, in other words. Can you give an example? I just went through dang's comments in the last few days and found nothing of the sort, and it has not been my experience at all, unless posting an unpopular opinion counts as instigation. Dang's pattern, every time I've been witness to his moderation, is to cut the first comment that descends into incivility or flaming. Conversations on HN sometimes get heated. Some people take people disagreeing with them as a personal attack and quickly descend into actual personal attacks in response. Those people may feel like they're being singled out by dang, but it's because they actually are misbehaving.
- TameAntelope 4y ago
  Look at his post history, you can see plenty of examples. A pattern he follows very commonly is seen here [0]: "Can you stop doing $thing?" However, it's dang's opinion that $thing is occurring, and he makes zero effort to understand why $thing could even be happening, and further entertains zero challenges to his interpretation of what has taken place. It's, "stop doing $thing, which is definitely happening, or else I will ban you." Here's another good example of dang handling moderation poorly [1]: he spends zero time explaining the situation, zero time listening to the perspective of the "accused", and simply, curtly, dismisses that person from the site. Ironically, dang's intervention is often the most toxic behavior in a comment chain, and these examples are what I found in just the past two hours. There are thousands, or more, people treated this way, and instead of concern, praise is constantly dumped on him, like what he's doing is some incredible or even desirable behavior! The assumption is the site is better off without these people he treats poorly on it, but I doubt any rigor has been placed on that assumption whatsoever. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039759 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039759 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32039501