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> I’m pretty sure if you enforced the ruling, you’d have gotten a quick response from them. don't tell someone that you know more about a situation that they w

> I’m pretty sure if you enforced the ruling, you’d have gotten a quick response from them. don't tell someone that you know more about a situation that they were in and you were not. A) it's freaking rude as hell, and B) you absolutely DO NOT have more awareness about this situation than the person who lived it.

armada651 4y ago
I don't get this mentality. I don't get why people think living through an experience makes them such an expert that any outside opinion is immediately offensive. An outsider can always offer a new perspective and they could be more knowledgeable than the person who went through the experience.
- stingraycharles 4y ago
  It wasn’t my intention to claim to be an expert on the situation, as much as it was mostly to share a story and point out that there’s a large grey area here. The parent definitely was factual and correct, but the tone made it sound a bit as if they thought my reasons for doing so were incorrect. That would be a bit of a stretch, and I think that’s what was bothering @naikrovek
  - armada651 4y ago
    Didn't mean to imply that was how you felt. My response was aimed at the mentality @naikrovek was stating, which is definitely a wider held belief in some communities.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  It’s not offensive. It just makes the replier looks like an idiot. Who do you think had the best perspective on the situation? The person who went through the litigation, had lawyers, knew all the details of the case and made the decision of the poster sending a canned five lines reply based on a paragraph? It does take much awareness to realise that sending an abrasive reply when you are in no position to do so might be ill received by the community (well at least the quickly diminishing part who wants to have an interesting discussion).
- Applejinx 4y ago
  It's a Chesterton's Fence situation. An outsider is just as likely to be an arrogant fool, and an arrogant fool is more likely to find skepticism offensive than a normal person. There are plenty of people, even on Hacker News, who assume that they are by default more knowledgeable than anybody else, and therefore are obliged to look at any given situation, opine, and set the record straight. Other people don't matter, and certainly their 'experiences' won't count. So, it's not surprising or offensive to run into the 'water squirt bottle of correction', where kitty gets unexpectedly hit with the message 'opining on experience you've never experienced disqualifies you as a first class advice giver'. Chesterton's Fence is of course the idea that, if you encounter a fence and you don't know what it's for, you don't take it down until you do know what the fence was for. People tend to get worked up about the things they see that, to them, seem to be there for no reason, and advocate all the more vigorously for removing such things when to them, the existence of the thing is obvious nonsense with no possible justification… they would rather think that a thing was done by a total fool who's so inferior to them as to be hopelessly incapable, than consider the idea that their superiority might be questionable.
  - couchand 4y ago
    Well this isn't exactly a currently-standing fence, so the metaphor falls down. It's more like someone coming upon their neighbor complaining about a mutual neighbor and their fence and offering them advice for the next confrontation with the neighbor.
    - TillE 4y ago
      It's a really simple allegory that warns about the dangers of approaching a situation from a position of ignorance.
      - couchand 4y ago
        Yes and misusing simple allegories and therefore misunderstanding the situation is very common.
  - omegabravo 4y ago
- fenomas 4y ago
  > An outsider ... could be more knowledgeable than the person who went through the experience If the outsider is making general claims about similar sorts of situations, then sure. If they're predicting the behavior of someone unknown to them, but well known to the OP, then not so much.
stingraycharles 4y ago
Thank you for saying this. While I do agree with the parent that in the the end it was my decision to go this route, the situation was much more complicated, and I absolutely wouldn’t get a quick response from them. Having said that, I wasn’t insulted by the parent, and they made a good point: my decision was based on pragmatism, and in the case of Twitter, this was much less likely to be the case. Since I decided to share my story in light of this whole Twitter debacle, the parent was right to point out that the comparison isn’t entirely correct, even more so when it’s about dozens of billions. The rules of the games are different there.
- multjoy 4y ago
  Commercial litigation is entirely about pragmatism. If twitter won and was in the position to compel performance, is that even in the best interest of the company? To force it upon an unwilling owner would be the best way to destroy it in very short order as they desperately attempt to recoup their costs. Far more sensible, with an enforceable order in hand, to come up with a negotiated settlement. Far easier, as well, with a nuclear option.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    It doesn't need to be in the best interests of the company, it needs to be in n the best interests of the shareholders. If the company dies once Elon owns it, it sucks for the employees and Elon, but not the all important shareholders.
    - ModernMech 4y ago
      Indeed, if the point of the sale was to put Twitter in hands capable of steering the ship, they wouldn’t have sold to Musk in the first place.
  - miohtama 4y ago
    In this point, it is the interest of the CEO, board and shareholders to collect a fat check and let Mr Musk burn down with Twitter. It’s Musk’s problem what to do with an unwilling owner issues.
aantix 4y ago
So doctors know less about a situation than the patient experiencing the pain? A good coach has zero impact on their players that actually experience the game?
- Kaze404 4y ago
  A doctor certainly knows less about what the patient is feeling than the patient themselves. It's a known phenomenon with women's health, where we have medical professionals literally gaslighting us about our own physical and mental health.

armada651 4y ago

I don't get this mentality. I don't get why people think living through an experience makes them such an expert that any outside opinion is immediately offensive. An outsider can always offer a new perspective and they could be more knowledgeable than the person who went through the experience.

stingraycharles 4y ago
It wasn’t my intention to claim to be an expert on the situation, as much as it was mostly to share a story and point out that there’s a large grey area here. The parent definitely was factual and correct, but the tone made it sound a bit as if they thought my reasons for doing so were incorrect. That would be a bit of a stretch, and I think that’s what was bothering @naikrovek
- armada651 4y ago
  Didn't mean to imply that was how you felt. My response was aimed at the mentality @naikrovek was stating, which is definitely a wider held belief in some communities.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
It’s not offensive. It just makes the replier looks like an idiot. Who do you think had the best perspective on the situation? The person who went through the litigation, had lawyers, knew all the details of the case and made the decision of the poster sending a canned five lines reply based on a paragraph? It does take much awareness to realise that sending an abrasive reply when you are in no position to do so might be ill received by the community (well at least the quickly diminishing part who wants to have an interesting discussion).
Applejinx 4y ago
It's a Chesterton's Fence situation. An outsider is just as likely to be an arrogant fool, and an arrogant fool is more likely to find skepticism offensive than a normal person. There are plenty of people, even on Hacker News, who assume that they are by default more knowledgeable than anybody else, and therefore are obliged to look at any given situation, opine, and set the record straight. Other people don't matter, and certainly their 'experiences' won't count. So, it's not surprising or offensive to run into the 'water squirt bottle of correction', where kitty gets unexpectedly hit with the message 'opining on experience you've never experienced disqualifies you as a first class advice giver'. Chesterton's Fence is of course the idea that, if you encounter a fence and you don't know what it's for, you don't take it down until you do know what the fence was for. People tend to get worked up about the things they see that, to them, seem to be there for no reason, and advocate all the more vigorously for removing such things when to them, the existence of the thing is obvious nonsense with no possible justification… they would rather think that a thing was done by a total fool who's so inferior to them as to be hopelessly incapable, than consider the idea that their superiority might be questionable.
- couchand 4y ago
  Well this isn't exactly a currently-standing fence, so the metaphor falls down. It's more like someone coming upon their neighbor complaining about a mutual neighbor and their fence and offering them advice for the next confrontation with the neighbor.
  - TillE 4y ago
    It's a really simple allegory that warns about the dangers of approaching a situation from a position of ignorance.
    - couchand 4y ago
      Yes and misusing simple allegories and therefore misunderstanding the situation is very common.
- omegabravo 4y ago
fenomas 4y ago
> An outsider ... could be more knowledgeable than the person who went through the experience If the outsider is making general claims about similar sorts of situations, then sure. If they're predicting the behavior of someone unknown to them, but well known to the OP, then not so much.

stingraycharles 4y ago

Thank you for saying this. While I do agree with the parent that in the the end it was my decision to go this route, the situation was much more complicated, and I absolutely wouldn’t get a quick response from them. Having said that, I wasn’t insulted by the parent, and they made a good point: my decision was based on pragmatism, and in the case of Twitter, this was much less likely to be the case. Since I decided to share my story in light of this whole Twitter debacle, the parent was right to point out that the comparison isn’t entirely correct, even more so when it’s about dozens of billions. The rules of the games are different there.

multjoy 4y ago
Commercial litigation is entirely about pragmatism. If twitter won and was in the position to compel performance, is that even in the best interest of the company? To force it upon an unwilling owner would be the best way to destroy it in very short order as they desperately attempt to recoup their costs. Far more sensible, with an enforceable order in hand, to come up with a negotiated settlement. Far easier, as well, with a nuclear option.
- Volundr 4y ago
  It doesn't need to be in the best interests of the company, it needs to be in n the best interests of the shareholders. If the company dies once Elon owns it, it sucks for the employees and Elon, but not the all important shareholders.
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    Indeed, if the point of the sale was to put Twitter in hands capable of steering the ship, they wouldn’t have sold to Musk in the first place.
- miohtama 4y ago
  In this point, it is the interest of the CEO, board and shareholders to collect a fat check and let Mr Musk burn down with Twitter. It’s Musk’s problem what to do with an unwilling owner issues.

aantix 4y ago

So doctors know less about a situation than the patient experiencing the pain? A good coach has zero impact on their players that actually experience the game?

Kaze404 4y ago
A doctor certainly knows less about what the patient is feeling than the patient themselves. It's a known phenomenon with women's health, where we have medical professionals literally gaslighting us about our own physical and mental health.