4 ms·

Whether or not this is a good list, I find the topic very interesting. For more exercise I've started to increase the range of my usual hikes, from just moochin

Whether or not this is a good list, I find the topic very interesting. For more exercise I've started to increase the range of my usual hikes, from just mooching around a 10 mile radius of home to some much more ambitious yomps out into wilderness. Being alone out there obviously raises thoughts about safety. Everyone knows I hate "smartphones" with a passion. For possible emergencies I carry a powered-down (battery flipped) Nokia wax-sealed in a dry-sack. Regardless, the cell coverage can't be relied upon and I don't fully trust it. Lately I started looking at alternatives, and considering the fascinating array of features some devices have. Stand alone GPS devices with loadable OSM maps seem really useful. Emergency beacons seem to fill a need for the bad case where you really need rescue. But there's also powerful handheld radios and sat phones. The landscape of affordable civilian RF gear seems to be changing fast. What kit do people pack for hiking? Or what gadgets do you wish existed?

valiant-comma 4y ago
Garmin’s InReach products are great for this. Emergency button, two-way texts, all satellite based, so basically full global coverage. They can also allow you to share your semi real-time location with friends and family, if that’s useful to you.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  Yes the Garmin stuff looks great. For some of those features you seem to need a renewable monthly subscription. I'm looking for products that build the connection cost into the one-off price, not out of cheapness but for more reliability/security than a subscription. Would be awful to finally need an emergency device and find the data plan had expired (as is now the case with phone networks that destroy your number when it goes unused regardless of how much credit you've charged it with). That's specifically one of the cost models I want to move away from. The only thing I should need to pack is some spare batteries.
  - dataflow 4y ago
    Kinda wish there was a pricing model along the lines of "top-up with $X of credit that is guaranteed not to remain valid for 5+ years, and charge it $100 for the first message, and $0.10/message thereafter for the next month, with the ability to send a predetermined test to the company server at a cost of $1/test", or something like that. Surely this kind of a model must be viable at some price point?
  - qbasic_forever 4y ago
    It's annoying but Garmin has a plan where you can pause it when you're not using it. It's something like $5 a year when not in use, then you flip it on (just go to the website) and it charges you the rate and gives you full service again. So if you're not using it in the winter you don't have to pay the big regular monthly cost. Unfortunately you will not find a satellite comm device without some kind of monthly service plan, it's how they base their business models. Get the Garmin inreach, it is absolutely worth it and two way communication is critical in a real rescue situation.
noughtme 4y ago
I prefer a standalone PLB (personal locator beacon) when backcountry skiing. Smaller, lighter, more reliable, no subscription fee.
- linsomniac 4y ago
  That's what I got as well: ACR ResQLink -- you register it with NOAA every 2 years, I can't find anywhere listing the price, I think it's $50 or $75. It then talks to NOAA satellites to send out your distress call and location. The device itself when I got it was $250, looks like they are $350ish now. The downside is there is basically nothing other than "I need rescue" that you can do with the device. You turn it on and a rescue team shows up.
  - Zircom 4y ago
    Do people get charged after they get rescued? I'd imagine it's pretty expensive to send a team out into the wilderness, do they recoup the costs from the rescued?
    - scruple 4y ago
      Rescue insurance isn't hard to come by or particularly expensive for the group of people who spend a lot of time outdoors. The American Alpine club, for instance, offers rescue insurance with a membership, dollar amounts vary with membership "type."
    - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
      I believe if it's a legit emergency, then no. If they find you obviously were clowning around, yes. Most SAR teams are not dedicated to SAR, but do other tasks (firefighting, soldiering, etc) so SAR operations kinda fall under training.
    - willyt 4y ago
      UK: pretty sure you dont get charged for anything execpt possibly ambulance/hospital if you are not from UK or EU, but I suspect it’s so unusual most NHS staff wouldn’t know how to bill you. Definitely no charge for sea rescue by the RNLI even though a typical shout for a Severn class ALB will burn £1-2k in diesel fuel.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
Get a Garmin inReach mini: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/592606 https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/592606 The key feature of the Garmin is that it has two way communication (on the cheap model you can use a slow character at a time typing, or link to your smartphone with BLE for a proper keyboard). Two way communication with rescuers is an absolute game-changer in real emergencies. You can tell rescuers exactly what happened and the conditions of people, the environment, etc. to expect. Without two way comms rescuers only see a ping from a beacon and have to first send out a small team to recon the area and find you, then they have to radio back to get a proper rescue going. With two way comms you can short circuit that recon and tell them exactly how many people are injured, if you need a helicopter right now, if you're safe to spend a night, etc. Rescuers can keep you in the loop of progress too like if they're delayed from weather, etc. I listen to a great podcast about climbing accidents (the sharp end: https://www.thesharpendpodcast.com/2022 https://www.thesharpendpodcast.com/2022 ) and every single episode that involves a rescue mentions that having two way communication with the search and rescue team was critical in getting a fast and safe rescue. Don't bother with anything else beside a satellite communication device that can talk both ways IMHO.
- eternityforest 4y ago
  I'm amazed that people willingly go on multi day hikes or sailing trips, regularly, without satellite communication. Some of them might be wearing multiple hundred dollar jackets and boots and can probably afford them without even needing to think of the cost. I can only assume they either don't know they exist or don't particularly want them? Do they enjoy the extra adrenaline of not having one?
  - rufus_foreman 4y ago
    I don't know about the adrenaline, but certainly part of the attraction of hiking in the backcountry was acceptance of that risk. Not much different than skateboarding, if there was a perfectly safe way to do it, I would have done something else. When I hiked alone, I never told anyone where I was going, and I wasn't going to ask someone to come rescue me in a helicopter from my poorly advised climb or snowshoe hike. If I got hurt, I was in trouble. You took the gear you thought you needed to make it back alive, meaning backups for most of that gear, and you knew how to use them. A compass and map isn't a drop in replacement for a GPS, if you're going to use a compass you need to know how to use it. And so on. But yeah, the risk was certainly part of the fun of it. DNR.
WrtCdEvrydy 4y ago
Honestly... Baofeng UV-5R is still my go-to for emergency usage... program in GMRS/FRS/Coast Guard frequencies as well as the simplex HAM frequencies. Sadly the new generation ones and the GT-5R which is cleaner spectrum-wise are all software limited to only HAM frequencies so in case of an emergency that one would less useful.
- ja27 4y ago
  While I still prefer more expensive, weatherproof ham handhelds, the UV-5R is almost throw-away cheap, making it easy to keep a couple on hand to hand out. Also program in at least any local NOAA weather stations. A bonus is FM broadcast reception. Was a real help keeping my mother-in-law occupied once we lost power and internet during a tropical storm.
- vitaflo 4y ago
  It’s illegal to have a radio that transmits on both FRS/GMRS as well as the ham bands. FCC Part 95 (GMRS) & Part 97 (Amateur) spell this out quite well. Baofeng has played fast and loose with these requirements in the past. The newer radios just fall in line with FCC rules.
  - LinuxBender 4y ago
    For an emergency I personally would disregard FCC regs. I don't think the rescuers will care either. Certainly local law enforcement won't care. Out in the wilderness it is unlikely one will be causing interference using a few extra watts. I say this as someone who used to pump out a few thousand extra watts. People generally get into trouble when they are playing around on frequencies they should not be on and causing interference, especially with businesses or law enforcement. Prolonged interference is what draws the attention of the FCC via complaints, usually because of harmonics from cheap radios. I should add that the FCC are few in number and spread very thin. It is extremely difficult to get them to respond to interference complaints unless the complainant are a big business.
    - vitaflo 4y ago

valiant-comma 4y ago

Garmin’s InReach products are great for this. Emergency button, two-way texts, all satellite based, so basically full global coverage. They can also allow you to share your semi real-time location with friends and family, if that’s useful to you.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
Yes the Garmin stuff looks great. For some of those features you seem to need a renewable monthly subscription. I'm looking for products that build the connection cost into the one-off price, not out of cheapness but for more reliability/security than a subscription. Would be awful to finally need an emergency device and find the data plan had expired (as is now the case with phone networks that destroy your number when it goes unused regardless of how much credit you've charged it with). That's specifically one of the cost models I want to move away from. The only thing I should need to pack is some spare batteries.
- dataflow 4y ago
  Kinda wish there was a pricing model along the lines of "top-up with $X of credit that is guaranteed not to remain valid for 5+ years, and charge it $100 for the first message, and $0.10/message thereafter for the next month, with the ability to send a predetermined test to the company server at a cost of $1/test", or something like that. Surely this kind of a model must be viable at some price point?
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  It's annoying but Garmin has a plan where you can pause it when you're not using it. It's something like $5 a year when not in use, then you flip it on (just go to the website) and it charges you the rate and gives you full service again. So if you're not using it in the winter you don't have to pay the big regular monthly cost. Unfortunately you will not find a satellite comm device without some kind of monthly service plan, it's how they base their business models. Get the Garmin inreach, it is absolutely worth it and two way communication is critical in a real rescue situation.

noughtme 4y ago

I prefer a standalone PLB (personal locator beacon) when backcountry skiing. Smaller, lighter, more reliable, no subscription fee.

linsomniac 4y ago
That's what I got as well: ACR ResQLink -- you register it with NOAA every 2 years, I can't find anywhere listing the price, I think it's $50 or $75. It then talks to NOAA satellites to send out your distress call and location. The device itself when I got it was $250, looks like they are $350ish now. The downside is there is basically nothing other than "I need rescue" that you can do with the device. You turn it on and a rescue team shows up.
- Zircom 4y ago
  Do people get charged after they get rescued? I'd imagine it's pretty expensive to send a team out into the wilderness, do they recoup the costs from the rescued?
  - scruple 4y ago
    Rescue insurance isn't hard to come by or particularly expensive for the group of people who spend a lot of time outdoors. The American Alpine club, for instance, offers rescue insurance with a membership, dollar amounts vary with membership "type."
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
    I believe if it's a legit emergency, then no. If they find you obviously were clowning around, yes. Most SAR teams are not dedicated to SAR, but do other tasks (firefighting, soldiering, etc) so SAR operations kinda fall under training.
  - willyt 4y ago
    UK: pretty sure you dont get charged for anything execpt possibly ambulance/hospital if you are not from UK or EU, but I suspect it’s so unusual most NHS staff wouldn’t know how to bill you. Definitely no charge for sea rescue by the RNLI even though a typical shout for a Severn class ALB will burn £1-2k in diesel fuel.

qbasic_forever 4y ago

Get a Garmin inReach mini: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/592606 https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/592606 The key feature of the Garmin is that it has two way communication (on the cheap model you can use a slow character at a time typing, or link to your smartphone with BLE for a proper keyboard). Two way communication with rescuers is an absolute game-changer in real emergencies. You can tell rescuers exactly what happened and the conditions of people, the environment, etc. to expect. Without two way comms rescuers only see a ping from a beacon and have to first send out a small team to recon the area and find you, then they have to radio back to get a proper rescue going. With two way comms you can short circuit that recon and tell them exactly how many people are injured, if you need a helicopter right now, if you're safe to spend a night, etc. Rescuers can keep you in the loop of progress too like if they're delayed from weather, etc. I listen to a great podcast about climbing accidents (the sharp end: https://www.thesharpendpodcast.com/2022 https://www.thesharpendpodcast.com/2022 ) and every single episode that involves a rescue mentions that having two way communication with the search and rescue team was critical in getting a fast and safe rescue. Don't bother with anything else beside a satellite communication device that can talk both ways IMHO.

eternityforest 4y ago
I'm amazed that people willingly go on multi day hikes or sailing trips, regularly, without satellite communication. Some of them might be wearing multiple hundred dollar jackets and boots and can probably afford them without even needing to think of the cost. I can only assume they either don't know they exist or don't particularly want them? Do they enjoy the extra adrenaline of not having one?
- rufus_foreman 4y ago
  I don't know about the adrenaline, but certainly part of the attraction of hiking in the backcountry was acceptance of that risk. Not much different than skateboarding, if there was a perfectly safe way to do it, I would have done something else. When I hiked alone, I never told anyone where I was going, and I wasn't going to ask someone to come rescue me in a helicopter from my poorly advised climb or snowshoe hike. If I got hurt, I was in trouble. You took the gear you thought you needed to make it back alive, meaning backups for most of that gear, and you knew how to use them. A compass and map isn't a drop in replacement for a GPS, if you're going to use a compass you need to know how to use it. And so on. But yeah, the risk was certainly part of the fun of it. DNR.

WrtCdEvrydy 4y ago

Honestly... Baofeng UV-5R is still my go-to for emergency usage... program in GMRS/FRS/Coast Guard frequencies as well as the simplex HAM frequencies. Sadly the new generation ones and the GT-5R which is cleaner spectrum-wise are all software limited to only HAM frequencies so in case of an emergency that one would less useful.

ja27 4y ago
While I still prefer more expensive, weatherproof ham handhelds, the UV-5R is almost throw-away cheap, making it easy to keep a couple on hand to hand out. Also program in at least any local NOAA weather stations. A bonus is FM broadcast reception. Was a real help keeping my mother-in-law occupied once we lost power and internet during a tropical storm.
vitaflo 4y ago
It’s illegal to have a radio that transmits on both FRS/GMRS as well as the ham bands. FCC Part 95 (GMRS) & Part 97 (Amateur) spell this out quite well. Baofeng has played fast and loose with these requirements in the past. The newer radios just fall in line with FCC rules.
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  For an emergency I personally would disregard FCC regs. I don't think the rescuers will care either. Certainly local law enforcement won't care. Out in the wilderness it is unlikely one will be causing interference using a few extra watts. I say this as someone who used to pump out a few thousand extra watts. People generally get into trouble when they are playing around on frequencies they should not be on and causing interference, especially with businesses or law enforcement. Prolonged interference is what draws the attention of the FCC via complaints, usually because of harmonics from cheap radios. I should add that the FCC are few in number and spread very thin. It is extremely difficult to get them to respond to interference complaints unless the complainant are a big business.
  - vitaflo 4y ago