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Try an experiment, grab a piece of paper and write out the top ten programmers that first come to your mind. Now next to their names write out which company th

Try an experiment, grab a piece of paper and write out the top ten programmers that first come to your mind. Now next to their names write out which company they work for. There was a time when I was tossing around the idea of starting my own business, something just wasn't clicking for me. Then I did this experiment, and I realized that most the programmers who inspired me to be a programmer worked for someone else (with pg being a major exception). I thought "It can't just be because they didn't have the courage to start there own company". And then I realized what was making me uncomfortable with starting my own business. I enjoy the myopia I can have being paid to work reasonable hours as a developer. I have other passions in life, but I love that I can spend the vast majority of my spare time studying code, cs, math etc without worrying about business, marketing etc. Design I like (I'm not as passionate about it), but business I really just don't get excited about. As has been discussed over and over on hn, true expertise is only going to be achieved by putting lots of time into something. For me personally, I can't help that thing be programming and CS, maybe one day that will change (it honestly wouldn't surprise me). Now if you do that same experiment with the top 10 wealthiest people you respect, you will probably come up with a bunch of entrepreneurs. The question really only comes does to which top 10 is the one you strive to be in.

Confusion 15y ago
That was my first thought: because I'm indeed a developer. Not an entrepreneur.
keiferski 15y ago
Very true, but there's no need to assign developers as "inspiring experts" and entrepreneurs as "wealthy people." 10/10 of the wealthiest people are not successful because they wanted to be rich, they're successful because they enjoy business and entrepreneurship. These people aren't any different than you; they just have different interests. It ultimately comes down to your personal interests. Like business? Be an entrepreneur. Like programming and computer science? Be a developer. The only thing not to be is in it only for the money.
- Homunculiheaded 15y ago
  You're very right, I didn't mean to imply such a dichotomy. I was thinking more along the lines off come up with your personal top 10 at X, where X can be even as simple as people who inspire/influenced you, and look for patterns.
  - 6ren 15y ago
    Maybe "top ten X's who inspired me to be an X". This would include people who are inspired by autonomy and self-determination (read: congenitally unable to work for someone else) - the "E-Myth" claims not working for someone else is the main reason people start a business.
- billpatrianakos 15y ago
  I agree completely about money. We all want money but the system is rigged and wealth is something most of us won't get. I'm still very young but I believe it's enough to have enough money to live comfortably, get married, raise some kids, and all that first and foremost. I aspire to be really wealthy but I'm not deluding myself into thinking this is an achievement that anyone can get. It feels like the best we can do is strive for wealth with a healthy respect and understanding of the odds of achieving it and being satisfied with regular step-wise progress over large leaps from poor house to rich. I've also found that doing anything for the money is a sure path to unhappiness regardless of whether you get it or not. I strongly believe that if you do what youre passionate about the money will come. It won't come magically but it's kind of like that book, "The Secret" except with a realistic attitude because wishful thinking and envisioning where you want to be isn't enough, actions trump thoughts any day.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - hello_moto 15y ago
    Big props to you. I mean it. Seriously 100% genuine. Because these days most people don't think the way you do. You are a rare breed. I think the biggest winner in our society are those who can ignore money (to some degree) and enjoy their life to the fullest by doing things that matters for themselves and other people. It is a very extremely hard mindset to achieve. Harder than working hard because that mindset requires faith that things will be okay if one can enjoy life and accept things with positive attitude regardless the situation.
bfrs 15y ago
...but business I really just don't get excited about. Neither do I. But, I'm willing to put up with it if other alternatives piss me off real bad.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
willpower101 15y ago
I have the opposite problem. I'm an entrepreneur first, and a developer fifth ;) But getting dev's to see their own potential as a partner is like pulling teeth.
- zavulon 15y ago
  That's because developers hear a TON of ideas, and it's very difficult to get excited about anything when you get pitched so much. Sure, your idea sounds amazing, groundbreaking and world-changing to you, but to us? We've heard it all, a hundred times before. I run a software development company, and whenever someone offers me to work for %, in most cases the answer is an automatic "no". In order to even consider doing something like that, we'd have to put in a ton of research into .. well, YOU mostly. Whether your idea is good enough or not is secondary. The most important thing is whether you are qualified enough to take this business to the stars if we put in work for equity, so that equity becomes worth our time. And we, as developers, are not qualified for that work. We know code, we don't know researching potential investment decisions - that's angels' and VC's job. I don't know your story, but usually, when someone does a similar complaint, that's my answer to them.
- einhverfr 15y ago
  Of course taking on a business partner is almost exactly like getting married without the sex. So it really pays to get to know potential business partners first.
rick888 15y ago
Some people just aren't interested in running a business, which is fine. However, I see things in a different light. I love developing web software. It's been a passion of mine since I was 13. I've been working as a developer for the past 10 years and I've come to a point where I'm tired of working for other people. Your path is in their hands and many times, you will be forced down a path you don't want to take. I've seen many companies go down the toilet because of decisions that were beyond my control. It has made me despise my passion. I would rather toil my life away on something that will make me rich rather than someone else.
orochimaru 15y ago
This would be true, if not for co-founders. There are people who enjoy writing code, and there are people who enjoy selling and marketing. The marriage of the two can be ideal. Example: Id Software. ( Please add more ).

Confusion 15y ago

That was my first thought: because I'm indeed a developer. Not an entrepreneur.

keiferski 15y ago

Very true, but there's no need to assign developers as "inspiring experts" and entrepreneurs as "wealthy people." 10/10 of the wealthiest people are not successful because they wanted to be rich, they're successful because they enjoy business and entrepreneurship. These people aren't any different than you; they just have different interests. It ultimately comes down to your personal interests. Like business? Be an entrepreneur. Like programming and computer science? Be a developer. The only thing not to be is in it only for the money.

Homunculiheaded 15y ago
You're very right, I didn't mean to imply such a dichotomy. I was thinking more along the lines off come up with your personal top 10 at X, where X can be even as simple as people who inspire/influenced you, and look for patterns.
- 6ren 15y ago
  Maybe "top ten X's who inspired me to be an X". This would include people who are inspired by autonomy and self-determination (read: congenitally unable to work for someone else) - the "E-Myth" claims not working for someone else is the main reason people start a business.
billpatrianakos 15y ago
I agree completely about money. We all want money but the system is rigged and wealth is something most of us won't get. I'm still very young but I believe it's enough to have enough money to live comfortably, get married, raise some kids, and all that first and foremost. I aspire to be really wealthy but I'm not deluding myself into thinking this is an achievement that anyone can get. It feels like the best we can do is strive for wealth with a healthy respect and understanding of the odds of achieving it and being satisfied with regular step-wise progress over large leaps from poor house to rich. I've also found that doing anything for the money is a sure path to unhappiness regardless of whether you get it or not. I strongly believe that if you do what youre passionate about the money will come. It won't come magically but it's kind of like that book, "The Secret" except with a realistic attitude because wishful thinking and envisioning where you want to be isn't enough, actions trump thoughts any day.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- hello_moto 15y ago
  Big props to you. I mean it. Seriously 100% genuine. Because these days most people don't think the way you do. You are a rare breed. I think the biggest winner in our society are those who can ignore money (to some degree) and enjoy their life to the fullest by doing things that matters for themselves and other people. It is a very extremely hard mindset to achieve. Harder than working hard because that mindset requires faith that things will be okay if one can enjoy life and accept things with positive attitude regardless the situation.

bfrs 15y ago

...but business I really just don't get excited about. Neither do I. But, I'm willing to put up with it if other alternatives piss me off real bad.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

willpower101 15y ago

I have the opposite problem. I'm an entrepreneur first, and a developer fifth ;) But getting dev's to see their own potential as a partner is like pulling teeth.

zavulon 15y ago
That's because developers hear a TON of ideas, and it's very difficult to get excited about anything when you get pitched so much. Sure, your idea sounds amazing, groundbreaking and world-changing to you, but to us? We've heard it all, a hundred times before. I run a software development company, and whenever someone offers me to work for %, in most cases the answer is an automatic "no". In order to even consider doing something like that, we'd have to put in a ton of research into .. well, YOU mostly. Whether your idea is good enough or not is secondary. The most important thing is whether you are qualified enough to take this business to the stars if we put in work for equity, so that equity becomes worth our time. And we, as developers, are not qualified for that work. We know code, we don't know researching potential investment decisions - that's angels' and VC's job. I don't know your story, but usually, when someone does a similar complaint, that's my answer to them.
einhverfr 15y ago
Of course taking on a business partner is almost exactly like getting married without the sex. So it really pays to get to know potential business partners first.

rick888 15y ago

Some people just aren't interested in running a business, which is fine. However, I see things in a different light. I love developing web software. It's been a passion of mine since I was 13. I've been working as a developer for the past 10 years and I've come to a point where I'm tired of working for other people. Your path is in their hands and many times, you will be forced down a path you don't want to take. I've seen many companies go down the toilet because of decisions that were beyond my control. It has made me despise my passion. I would rather toil my life away on something that will make me rich rather than someone else.

orochimaru 15y ago

This would be true, if not for co-founders. There are people who enjoy writing code, and there are people who enjoy selling and marketing. The marriage of the two can be ideal. Example: Id Software. ( Please add more ).