9 ms·

> Would love to see more. There's the Toronto gauge, the Japanese high speed rail gauge (which is standard, 1435mm, for the world but wider than what was used

by sofixa 4y ago

> Would love to see more. There's the Toronto gauge, the Japanese high speed rail gauge (which is standard, 1435mm, for the world but wider than what was used before in Japan, 1000mm and less) and the Spanish high speed rail gauge (which is also standard, 1435mm, even though they usually use Iberian gauge which is wider - and on this, they have some interesting train designs that are capable of automatically switching between the two).

gpvos 4y ago
I recently read that although the Spanish high speed lines don't have many passenger trains (the recent Perpignan-Figueres tunnel only has two per day, although that's partly because of corona), they also carry through freight traffic from France because there's no break-of-gauge. A bit unusual for a high speed line, but why not.
- ehnto 4y ago
  That really interesting. I wonder how much that impacts maintenance if at all. They definitely couldn't do that if timing on passenger rail was increased, but while there's sufficient gaps then as you said, why not.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  >(the recent Perpignan-Figueres tunnel only has two per day, although that's partly because of corona) It was four per day in each direction pre-Covid.
- martinald 4y ago
  Yes I was shocked at this too. Even the flagship Madrid Barcelona line only has 1 train per hour. This seems ridiculously low given HS2 in the UK is planned to have 18tph on the core line (to various destinations, but still). To make matters worse the spainish high speed lines have mandatory reservations so once the train has sold out you are not allowed to board - unlike the UK where you can still board but may have to stand for some of the journey - which is not ideal but at least you don't have to stand around for another hour waiting for the next train anyway.
  - elnatro 4y ago
    HS2 line is planned, Madrid-Barcelona is built (was completed in 2008).
  - gpvos 4y ago
    1 train per hour is slightly more than I would expect on Madrid-Barcelona, I'm positively surprised. Spain is really sparsely populated.
  - dmd 4y ago
    18 per HOUR!? Like… every 3 minutes? [cries in American] I thought Acela’s 20 trains a DAY was a lot.
    - iasay 4y ago
      Spend a few minutes at Clapham Junction here at rush hour. Average over 24 hours (yes including night when there are no trains) is one departure every 43 seconds.
      - seanp2k2 4y ago
        America, where I’m free to drive anywhere at any time because public transit doesn’t effectively exist for most people :( I miss the trains in other countries so much. They’re reminders of what we could have had here had we not let NIMBYism win. https://www.quora.com/Why-wasnt-BART-built-initially-to-loop-around-the-entire-bay https://www.quora.com/Why-wasnt-BART-built-initially-to-loop... has some of the history, there’s probably a better article out there somewhere.
        jlarocco 4y ago
        It had less to do with NIMBYism and more to do with car company profits. [1] Here in the Denver metro area, we used to have trains running all over the place, and 100 years ago, there were daily trains between Denver, Boulder, Golden, and Longmont. Then they ended service and tore up most of the tracks. Fast-forward to 2022, and now they're trying again to put rail between Boulder and Denver, but it's a $1+ billion boondoggle that hasn't gone anywhere in 15 years. [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-I8GDklsN4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-I8GDklsN4 [2] https://www.cpr.org/2022/03/01/rtd-fastracks-commuter-rail-buses/ https://www.cpr.org/2022/03/01/rtd-fastracks-commuter-rail-b...
- ant6n 4y ago
  That France-Spain connection is fairly special. Firstly, international connections tend to have much less traffic than intranational ones. Secondly, the line was built with a PPP project (long since failed), assuming it could be very profitable based on track access fees - and the track access fees for that stretch of railroad are basically the highest anywhere in Europe except for the channel tunnel. But unlike the channel tunnel (and thirdly), the connections across the line aren’t as useful as the channel tunnel, which connects a giant metropolis (London) with several other metropoli in 2-4 hours, a sweet spot for rail, whereas Barcelona and Paris/Marseille are more like 6h. Once the French side will update their Mediterranean rail lines to hsr standards, the time will go down and ridership will increase, despite the high costs. Lastly, there isn’t much freight on the line, because (besides the high track fees) there isn’t much of a standard gauge freight rail network in Spain. In some sense the Perpignan Figueras line was supposed to be like the channel tunnel, but it really isn’t. It’s not exactly comparable to the rest of the Spanish hsr network - which is arguably overbuilt for political reasons to get hsr into many even smaller cities, and perhaps under-utilised at this point, but it’s not as bad as that one line might suggest when picked as a representative.
- elnatro 4y ago
  The Perpignan-Lyon has been postponed by the French government. When they complete it, the connection with Barcelona will see much more railway traffic.
jahnu 4y ago
We got the weird 1600mm in Ireland :) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge_in_Ireland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge_in_Ireland
- Trouble_007 4y ago
  The British Gauge competition 7-ft 1/4 inch (2,140 mm) gauge railway - Isambard Kingdom Brunel : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-foot_gauge_railway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-foot_gauge_railway Great Western Railway : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway List of 7-foot gauge railway locomotive names : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7-foot_gauge_railway_locomotive_names https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7-foot_gauge_railway... British narrow-gauge railways : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_narrow-gauge_railways https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_narrow-gauge_railway...

by sofixa 4y ago

gpvos 4y ago

I recently read that although the Spanish high speed lines don't have many passenger trains (the recent Perpignan-Figueres tunnel only has two per day, although that's partly because of corona), they also carry through freight traffic from France because there's no break-of-gauge. A bit unusual for a high speed line, but why not.

ehnto 4y ago
That really interesting. I wonder how much that impacts maintenance if at all. They definitely couldn't do that if timing on passenger rail was increased, but while there's sufficient gaps then as you said, why not.
ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
>(the recent Perpignan-Figueres tunnel only has two per day, although that's partly because of corona) It was four per day in each direction pre-Covid.
martinald 4y ago
Yes I was shocked at this too. Even the flagship Madrid Barcelona line only has 1 train per hour. This seems ridiculously low given HS2 in the UK is planned to have 18tph on the core line (to various destinations, but still). To make matters worse the spainish high speed lines have mandatory reservations so once the train has sold out you are not allowed to board - unlike the UK where you can still board but may have to stand for some of the journey - which is not ideal but at least you don't have to stand around for another hour waiting for the next train anyway.
- elnatro 4y ago
  HS2 line is planned, Madrid-Barcelona is built (was completed in 2008).
- gpvos 4y ago
  1 train per hour is slightly more than I would expect on Madrid-Barcelona, I'm positively surprised. Spain is really sparsely populated.
- dmd 4y ago
  18 per HOUR!? Like… every 3 minutes? [cries in American] I thought Acela’s 20 trains a DAY was a lot.
  - iasay 4y ago
    Spend a few minutes at Clapham Junction here at rush hour. Average over 24 hours (yes including night when there are no trains) is one departure every 43 seconds.
    - seanp2k2 4y ago
      America, where I’m free to drive anywhere at any time because public transit doesn’t effectively exist for most people :( I miss the trains in other countries so much. They’re reminders of what we could have had here had we not let NIMBYism win. https://www.quora.com/Why-wasnt-BART-built-initially-to-loop-around-the-entire-bay https://www.quora.com/Why-wasnt-BART-built-initially-to-loop... has some of the history, there’s probably a better article out there somewhere.
      - jlarocco 4y ago
        It had less to do with NIMBYism and more to do with car company profits. [1] Here in the Denver metro area, we used to have trains running all over the place, and 100 years ago, there were daily trains between Denver, Boulder, Golden, and Longmont. Then they ended service and tore up most of the tracks. Fast-forward to 2022, and now they're trying again to put rail between Boulder and Denver, but it's a $1+ billion boondoggle that hasn't gone anywhere in 15 years. [2] [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-I8GDklsN4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-I8GDklsN4 [2] https://www.cpr.org/2022/03/01/rtd-fastracks-commuter-rail-buses/ https://www.cpr.org/2022/03/01/rtd-fastracks-commuter-rail-b...
ant6n 4y ago
That France-Spain connection is fairly special. Firstly, international connections tend to have much less traffic than intranational ones. Secondly, the line was built with a PPP project (long since failed), assuming it could be very profitable based on track access fees - and the track access fees for that stretch of railroad are basically the highest anywhere in Europe except for the channel tunnel. But unlike the channel tunnel (and thirdly), the connections across the line aren’t as useful as the channel tunnel, which connects a giant metropolis (London) with several other metropoli in 2-4 hours, a sweet spot for rail, whereas Barcelona and Paris/Marseille are more like 6h. Once the French side will update their Mediterranean rail lines to hsr standards, the time will go down and ridership will increase, despite the high costs. Lastly, there isn’t much freight on the line, because (besides the high track fees) there isn’t much of a standard gauge freight rail network in Spain. In some sense the Perpignan Figueras line was supposed to be like the channel tunnel, but it really isn’t. It’s not exactly comparable to the rest of the Spanish hsr network - which is arguably overbuilt for political reasons to get hsr into many even smaller cities, and perhaps under-utilised at this point, but it’s not as bad as that one line might suggest when picked as a representative.
elnatro 4y ago
The Perpignan-Lyon has been postponed by the French government. When they complete it, the connection with Barcelona will see much more railway traffic.

jahnu 4y ago

We got the weird 1600mm in Ireland :) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge_in_Ireland https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge_in_Ireland

Trouble_007 4y ago
The British Gauge competition 7-ft 1/4 inch (2,140 mm) gauge railway - Isambard Kingdom Brunel : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-foot_gauge_railway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-foot_gauge_railway Great Western Railway : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway List of 7-foot gauge railway locomotive names : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7-foot_gauge_railway_locomotive_names https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7-foot_gauge_railway... British narrow-gauge railways : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_narrow-gauge_railways https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_narrow-gauge_railway...