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If there's anything that would build public trust back in police institutions, it would be politically-empowered independent citizen's oversight boards. It is s

If there's anything that would build public trust back in police institutions, it would be politically-empowered independent citizen's oversight boards. It is such a shame that most cities in the US don't have these. I'd like the police to be a (mostly) transparent organization that is concerned with the health of our society and key partners to all upstanding citizens. Citizen oversight boards is one path to making that happen.

SpikeDad 4y ago
This is exactly the solution. I've long proposed civilian review boards assembled like juries - random citizens called in to judge specific cases of police actions. Theses juries would have the ability to rule on the culpability of the officers, select penalties and their deliberations would be secret and final. Police that know their actions would be reviewed and their chiefs and administrators would have no ability to save them would certainly reduce the amount of police illegality.
wonderwonder 4y ago
Unfortunately so many police departments are just gangs now with political backing. Just this 4th of July the NYPD decided it was their right to commandeer viewing areas for their families and prevent the public from using them. No repercussions, no politicians demanding an investigation, just armed people in uniform daring you to say something. This is a massive open abuse of power and its just shrugged off.
- kmeisthax 4y ago
  In the specific case of the NYPD the qualifier "now" is not necessary. They have a centuries-long history of acting above and outside the law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_Police_Department https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_P... Highlights include: * Early in it's formation, the historical precursor to the NYPD was two separate police forces; one run by the city and one run by the state. At one point the city police (Municipals) was literally protecting the mayor from arrest by the state police (Metropolitans). * Having to be rescued by actual nativist[0] gangs after riots broke out after the Metropolitans won out over the Municipals * Repeated bi-decennial corruption investigations that lead to reforms which just push the corruption somewhere else and make it worse Fun fact: the NYPD even operates in other countries. There's a weird post-9/11 program called the International Liaison Program[1] in which other countries pay the NYPD to station NYC cops in their country. It's absolutely insane that this somehow doesn't violate some kind of Geneva convention[2]. [0] People who wanted to build a wall and make the Irish pay for it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVJMtXvjn0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVJMtXvjn0A [2] Look. I'll settle for the "driving on the wrong side of the road" Geneva convention, just give me something
  - joshuaissac 4y ago
    On the face of it, the last one does not sound so bad, as long as the NYPD is operating with permission from the jurisdictions where they are operating. Just like how a company wholly owned by New York City could have contracts with New York City, London and Paris at the same time.
    - justsomehnguy 4y ago
      Except cops aren't your Average Joe, they need to obey the local laws regarding a police force operations and without a lot of laws (or a suitable hand-waving) can't do anything more than an American tourist in the destination country.
      - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
        Can't? Or should not, by law? There's a difference.
- diebeforei485 4y ago
  They should formalize this. They have to work on the 4th of July, I don't actually see a problem with making it easier for them to be closer to the kids/spouse that day.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    Lots of other people have to work on the 4th of July, they don't get to cordon of areas for their family.
    - diebeforei485 4y ago
      It's OK for jobs to have perks. Flights hard to find? It's often easier if a family member works as crew for the airline, etc.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    Why should they get more rights than the populace they enforce the laws over? More importantly this is not a formal policy they simply commandeered the space and forced the plebians out. If you don't think people should lose their jobs and be prosecuted for abuse of power over this I don't know what to say.
theshrike79 4y ago
The #1 thing that would reform the US police institutions is this: - All damages would be paid from their pension fund. That's it. If the bill goes to the city/county, nobody cares. If $cop1 fucking up messes up $cop[1..n]'s future pension plans? They'll start to self-police real fast.
- carschno 4y ago
  The point is that self-policing never works. It's not (only) a matter of motivation.
  - bigDinosaur 4y ago
    Where I am outside of the US, the anti police-corruption police are hated by the normal police, which I think is a pretty good indication of how many police don't like being held accountable. A lot of police misconduct really relates to a culture of closing ranks so it's seen as a betrayal to investigate that properly. It doesn't need to be said that police should be held to a higher standard than anyone else since they gain pretty major privileges and powers, obviously including the legal ability to use deadly force.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Pensions funds are already underfunded and subject to corruption such as understatement of liabilities and investments in politically connected ventures. The only result is future taxpayers get to pay higher taxes.
  - pooper 4y ago
    My gut reaction: - states and local governments may not hire any police officers unless they fully fund the pension obligations ahead of time. If we can force the USPS to do this, I'd say we can force state and local governments to do this as well. Problem is, I think this will lead to local governments privatizing the police force, getting rid of pension obligations completely, which will be an even worse outcome. Private, for profit companies with qualified immunity...

SpikeDad 4y ago

This is exactly the solution. I've long proposed civilian review boards assembled like juries - random citizens called in to judge specific cases of police actions. Theses juries would have the ability to rule on the culpability of the officers, select penalties and their deliberations would be secret and final. Police that know their actions would be reviewed and their chiefs and administrators would have no ability to save them would certainly reduce the amount of police illegality.

wonderwonder 4y ago

Unfortunately so many police departments are just gangs now with political backing. Just this 4th of July the NYPD decided it was their right to commandeer viewing areas for their families and prevent the public from using them. No repercussions, no politicians demanding an investigation, just armed people in uniform daring you to say something. This is a massive open abuse of power and its just shrugged off.

kmeisthax 4y ago
In the specific case of the NYPD the qualifier "now" is not necessary. They have a centuries-long history of acting above and outside the law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_Police_Department https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_P... Highlights include: * Early in it's formation, the historical precursor to the NYPD was two separate police forces; one run by the city and one run by the state. At one point the city police (Municipals) was literally protecting the mayor from arrest by the state police (Metropolitans). * Having to be rescued by actual nativist[0] gangs after riots broke out after the Metropolitans won out over the Municipals * Repeated bi-decennial corruption investigations that lead to reforms which just push the corruption somewhere else and make it worse Fun fact: the NYPD even operates in other countries. There's a weird post-9/11 program called the International Liaison Program[1] in which other countries pay the NYPD to station NYC cops in their country. It's absolutely insane that this somehow doesn't violate some kind of Geneva convention[2]. [0] People who wanted to build a wall and make the Irish pay for it. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVJMtXvjn0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVJMtXvjn0A [2] Look. I'll settle for the "driving on the wrong side of the road" Geneva convention, just give me something
- joshuaissac 4y ago
  On the face of it, the last one does not sound so bad, as long as the NYPD is operating with permission from the jurisdictions where they are operating. Just like how a company wholly owned by New York City could have contracts with New York City, London and Paris at the same time.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    Except cops aren't your Average Joe, they need to obey the local laws regarding a police force operations and without a lot of laws (or a suitable hand-waving) can't do anything more than an American tourist in the destination country.
    - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
      Can't? Or should not, by law? There's a difference.
diebeforei485 4y ago
They should formalize this. They have to work on the 4th of July, I don't actually see a problem with making it easier for them to be closer to the kids/spouse that day.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  Lots of other people have to work on the 4th of July, they don't get to cordon of areas for their family.
  - diebeforei485 4y ago
    It's OK for jobs to have perks. Flights hard to find? It's often easier if a family member works as crew for the airline, etc.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  Why should they get more rights than the populace they enforce the laws over? More importantly this is not a formal policy they simply commandeered the space and forced the plebians out. If you don't think people should lose their jobs and be prosecuted for abuse of power over this I don't know what to say.

theshrike79 4y ago

The #1 thing that would reform the US police institutions is this: - All damages would be paid from their pension fund. That's it. If the bill goes to the city/county, nobody cares. If $cop1 fucking up messes up $cop[1..n]'s future pension plans? They'll start to self-police real fast.

carschno 4y ago
The point is that self-policing never works. It's not (only) a matter of motivation.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  Where I am outside of the US, the anti police-corruption police are hated by the normal police, which I think is a pretty good indication of how many police don't like being held accountable. A lot of police misconduct really relates to a culture of closing ranks so it's seen as a betrayal to investigate that properly. It doesn't need to be said that police should be held to a higher standard than anyone else since they gain pretty major privileges and powers, obviously including the legal ability to use deadly force.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
Pensions funds are already underfunded and subject to corruption such as understatement of liabilities and investments in politically connected ventures. The only result is future taxpayers get to pay higher taxes.
- pooper 4y ago
  My gut reaction: - states and local governments may not hire any police officers unless they fully fund the pension obligations ahead of time. If we can force the USPS to do this, I'd say we can force state and local governments to do this as well. Problem is, I think this will lead to local governments privatizing the police force, getting rid of pension obligations completely, which will be an even worse outcome. Private, for profit companies with qualified immunity...