7 ms·

> A daily fine for contempt? Probably a large one. But if Tesla shares tank, and the other investors bail out, perhaps he just doesn't mechanically have the f

> A daily fine for contempt? Probably a large one. But if Tesla shares tank, and the other investors bail out, perhaps he just doesn't mechanically have the funds to do so.

lovich 4y ago
When normal people agree to spend more than they have that normally ends up in bankruptcy and liquidating most assets other than a few exceptions. Obviously that won’t happen here because the rich have a different set of laws but on the surface he either has the assets to pay it off or would have to sell everything he had and start over
- rkagerer 4y ago
  What specifically would prevent this?
  - lovich 4y ago
    De jure? Nothing, as written the law applies equally to all. De facto? Just observe how often the rich are convicted for their crimes. Even in the rare cases that they are jailed, the severity of the sentence is usually much lower than the common man. Look at Musk himself, he already agreed to not tweet about tesla without the boards approval in an agreement with the SEC to avoid punishment, then routinely ignored it and just fought them in court until he won. Our system allows for anyone with enough money to run out the clock until they either win, the other side gives up, or the situation no longer matters and the case is dropped.
    - listenallyall 4y ago
      > until he won He won. He prevailed. In court. Whatever you think he did that violated the SEC's order, is not correct, at least in the eyes of the judge or the jury who heard all the evidence and decided the case. Rich people do have the benefit of hiring excellent lawyers and affording every available opportunity to appeal. But that is not being "above the law," that is the law. At the end of the day, if Musk won even on the 10th appeal or whatever, then you can't say that he committed a crime.
    - brokenkebab2 4y ago
      Is there are some sort of stats to observe? Genuinely curious
      - lovich 4y ago
        If you are requesting stats to observe this then I believe you either need to start looking around more in how your society runs or you are sealioning[1] me. This is like asking for proof that the sky is blue. Perfectly acceptable in an academic context where the laws of physics are being defined at an extremely technical level. However if you’re asking a question like this in the context of every day life, it’s difficult to believe that you are asking in good faith. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
        brokenkebab2 4y ago
        I'm asking in good faith, of course. You wrote "just observe how often", and "how often“ is measurable. So there must be a record. I don't observe much crimes at all in my everyday life. Likely my life is not a good sample, but it just to point out to the obvious fact that what you belive to be an obvious fact may not be an obvious fact, but a political bias instead
        lovich 4y ago
        “How often” as used in colloquial English is not measurable because colloquial English is not a technical language and this isn’t a technical discussion. Finding examples of the rich getting away with crimes that regular people do not get away with is a simple google search away which is why you come off as sealioning. On the off chance that you are legitimately asking, here are a few examples [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/06/09/s-c-johnson-billionaire-gets-4-months-jail-6k-fine-in-child-sex-assault-case/?sh=381353a74272 https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/06/09/s-c-joh... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza [3] musk agreeing to stop tweeting about tesla without board certification of the tweet and then doing so anyway
    - rot13xor 4y ago
      Money lets you put weight on the scale to tip it in your favor, but it doesn't let you fully control the outcome. Especially because in this case Musk screwed over other rich people.
      - lovich 4y ago
        I’m being a little bit flippant here and I apologize in advance if it comes off as abrasive, but I think this image shows a good example of the difference between how regular people interact with the law, how the upper class interact with the law, and how the Uber wealthy like musk interact with the law[1]. If you have what is effectively infinite money as far as the system is concerned, you can break through any barrier [1] https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-954cf5204ca388a11909bb4b65d9e04d https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-954cf5204ca388a11909bb...
- edgyquant 4y ago
  The rich don’t have a different set of laws they just have better lawyers.
  - lovich 4y ago
    And what provides for the rich to acquire better lawyers that can produce a better outcome but the laws? Why is everyone not provided a state defender rather than letting the rich purchase the best talent?
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    Any law that carries a fixed fine and no jailtime is a law that rich people can break with abandon, yet would ruin a poor person. A $50 parking ticket is a major burden for a person making minimum wage (essentially a day of their life to recoup that); whereas for a rich person their money makes that amount for them in less time than it took me to write this post. Or, from another perspective: “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
rocqua 4y ago
I believe I have seen exponentially growing daily fines for contempt. Besides, you can jail people for contempt.
hef19898 4y ago
Worst case Musks tantrum over some tweet will tank Tesla, ruin himself and maybe even impact his other ventures. Basically he might just bring over himself what every shortseller predicted years ago would happen.

> A daily fine for contempt? Probably a large one. But if Tesla shares tank, and the other investors bail out, perhaps he just doesn't mechanically have the funds to do so.

lovich 4y ago

When normal people agree to spend more than they have that normally ends up in bankruptcy and liquidating most assets other than a few exceptions. Obviously that won’t happen here because the rich have a different set of laws but on the surface he either has the assets to pay it off or would have to sell everything he had and start over

rkagerer 4y ago
What specifically would prevent this?
- lovich 4y ago
  De jure? Nothing, as written the law applies equally to all. De facto? Just observe how often the rich are convicted for their crimes. Even in the rare cases that they are jailed, the severity of the sentence is usually much lower than the common man. Look at Musk himself, he already agreed to not tweet about tesla without the boards approval in an agreement with the SEC to avoid punishment, then routinely ignored it and just fought them in court until he won. Our system allows for anyone with enough money to run out the clock until they either win, the other side gives up, or the situation no longer matters and the case is dropped.
  - listenallyall 4y ago
    > until he won He won. He prevailed. In court. Whatever you think he did that violated the SEC's order, is not correct, at least in the eyes of the judge or the jury who heard all the evidence and decided the case. Rich people do have the benefit of hiring excellent lawyers and affording every available opportunity to appeal. But that is not being "above the law," that is the law. At the end of the day, if Musk won even on the 10th appeal or whatever, then you can't say that he committed a crime.
  - brokenkebab2 4y ago
    Is there are some sort of stats to observe? Genuinely curious
    - lovich 4y ago
      If you are requesting stats to observe this then I believe you either need to start looking around more in how your society runs or you are sealioning[1] me. This is like asking for proof that the sky is blue. Perfectly acceptable in an academic context where the laws of physics are being defined at an extremely technical level. However if you’re asking a question like this in the context of every day life, it’s difficult to believe that you are asking in good faith. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
      - brokenkebab2 4y ago
        I'm asking in good faith, of course. You wrote "just observe how often", and "how often“ is measurable. So there must be a record. I don't observe much crimes at all in my everyday life. Likely my life is not a good sample, but it just to point out to the obvious fact that what you belive to be an obvious fact may not be an obvious fact, but a political bias instead
        lovich 4y ago
        “How often” as used in colloquial English is not measurable because colloquial English is not a technical language and this isn’t a technical discussion. Finding examples of the rich getting away with crimes that regular people do not get away with is a simple google search away which is why you come off as sealioning. On the off chance that you are legitimately asking, here are a few examples [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/06/09/s-c-johnson-billionaire-gets-4-months-jail-6k-fine-in-child-sex-assault-case/?sh=381353a74272 https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/06/09/s-c-joh... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affluenza [3] musk agreeing to stop tweeting about tesla without board certification of the tweet and then doing so anyway
  - rot13xor 4y ago
    Money lets you put weight on the scale to tip it in your favor, but it doesn't let you fully control the outcome. Especially because in this case Musk screwed over other rich people.
    - lovich 4y ago
      I’m being a little bit flippant here and I apologize in advance if it comes off as abrasive, but I think this image shows a good example of the difference between how regular people interact with the law, how the upper class interact with the law, and how the Uber wealthy like musk interact with the law[1]. If you have what is effectively infinite money as far as the system is concerned, you can break through any barrier [1] https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-954cf5204ca388a11909bb4b65d9e04d https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-954cf5204ca388a11909bb...
edgyquant 4y ago
The rich don’t have a different set of laws they just have better lawyers.
- lovich 4y ago
  And what provides for the rich to acquire better lawyers that can produce a better outcome but the laws? Why is everyone not provided a state defender rather than letting the rich purchase the best talent?
- ModernMech 4y ago
  Any law that carries a fixed fine and no jailtime is a law that rich people can break with abandon, yet would ruin a poor person. A $50 parking ticket is a major burden for a person making minimum wage (essentially a day of their life to recoup that); whereas for a rich person their money makes that amount for them in less time than it took me to write this post. Or, from another perspective: “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”

rocqua 4y ago

I believe I have seen exponentially growing daily fines for contempt. Besides, you can jail people for contempt.

hef19898 4y ago

Worst case Musks tantrum over some tweet will tank Tesla, ruin himself and maybe even impact his other ventures. Basically he might just bring over himself what every shortseller predicted years ago would happen.