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>Protect themselves from what? Unhinged people with guns? Seems like recursion. Protect themselves from larger people with other weapons. Protect themselves f

>Protect themselves from what? Unhinged people with guns? Seems like recursion. Protect themselves from larger people with other weapons. Protect themselves from unarmed people who want to kill them. Protect themselves from crazy guy who made home-made shotgun with home-made gunpowder and home-made projectiles. Protect themselves from cartel members who smuggle weapons channeled by foreign militaries. Protect themselves from wild animals, including grizzly bears that inhabit the US and Polar bears that inhabit places like Svalbard. Protect themselves from rabid or poorly trained aggressive domestic animals, such as the many dogs that attack and even kill children annually.

daenz 4y ago
I've never seen anyone argue against this that wasn't essentially, "oh well, deal with it I guess." The police can't make it in time, and have no duty to protect you. Any other weapon that doesn't provide distance and lethal force is a liability. So what is the expectation for innocent victims, especially the smaller or weaker ones? Just get beaten/killed? I've never seen a real answer to this.
- mullingitover 4y ago
  > So what is the expectation for innocent victims, especially the smaller or weaker ones? Just get beaten/killed? I've never seen a real answer to this. Pepper spray is pretty great. You don't have to worry about killing someone, so you can use it with a lot less hesitation. I've been in a situation where I was in physical danger, but from someone I didn't want to kill, and pepper spray immediately ended the danger for me and allowed me to get away. A gun would not have done that because I wouldn't have used the gun.
  - daenz 4y ago
    I agree there are situations where nonlethal force is appropriate, and it sounds like you were in one of those situations. There are other situations where someone wants to and is trying to kill you, and pepper spray does not incapacitate that kind of aggression reliably. It also does not work well on drunk people or people with a high pain threshold tolerance.
    - mullingitover 4y ago
      In my case, the person was drunk, very strong, very angry, had quite a high pain threshold, and the pepper spray was shockingly effective. In about five seconds they went from screaming threats and swinging a 2x4 at family members to crumpled on the ground crying.

daenz 4y ago

I've never seen anyone argue against this that wasn't essentially, "oh well, deal with it I guess." The police can't make it in time, and have no duty to protect you. Any other weapon that doesn't provide distance and lethal force is a liability. So what is the expectation for innocent victims, especially the smaller or weaker ones? Just get beaten/killed? I've never seen a real answer to this.

mullingitover 4y ago
> So what is the expectation for innocent victims, especially the smaller or weaker ones? Just get beaten/killed? I've never seen a real answer to this. Pepper spray is pretty great. You don't have to worry about killing someone, so you can use it with a lot less hesitation. I've been in a situation where I was in physical danger, but from someone I didn't want to kill, and pepper spray immediately ended the danger for me and allowed me to get away. A gun would not have done that because I wouldn't have used the gun.
- daenz 4y ago
  I agree there are situations where nonlethal force is appropriate, and it sounds like you were in one of those situations. There are other situations where someone wants to and is trying to kill you, and pepper spray does not incapacitate that kind of aggression reliably. It also does not work well on drunk people or people with a high pain threshold tolerance.
  - mullingitover 4y ago
    In my case, the person was drunk, very strong, very angry, had quite a high pain threshold, and the pepper spray was shockingly effective. In about five seconds they went from screaming threats and swinging a 2x4 at family members to crumpled on the ground crying.