6 ms·

Amazon has a piracy/counterfeit problem. And has for a very long time. I have basically stopped buying there as much as possible. My current trend is to use th

Amazon has a piracy/counterfeit problem. And has for a very long time. I have basically stopped buying there as much as possible. My current trend is to use them as a search engine then got to the companies site. At this point you might as well shop alibaba as thats where half the crap is from anyway.

randcraw 4y ago
A better search engine (esp for used books) is BookFinder: https://bookfinder.com https://bookfinder.com. Between it and Goodreads, which has better ratings anyway, you can avoid Amazon entirely.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- simcop2387 4y ago
  That's not avoiding them entirely, but it does avoid their store front for discovery. GoodReads is owned wholly by Amazon.
- solardev 4y ago
  ...and aside from Goodreads (which is owned by Amazon), bookfinder is also hosted behind Amazon Cloudfront. No matter where you go and what you do, Amazon wins, lol. There's https://www.indiebound.org/ https://www.indiebound.org/ at least, which lets you search the inventory of local bookstores. I've also had good luck ordering used books from https://www.thriftbooks.com/ https://www.thriftbooks.com/ instead of Amazon.
- fernly 4y ago
  Bookfinder is hella useful but sometimes, especially for pre-ISBN books, https://www.addall.com/ https://www.addall.com/ has wider coverage.
- dhosek 4y ago
  I’ve been using bookfinder since it was mxbf.com There have been some long out of print hard to find books that I was able to find thanks to them (although in one case early in the site’s lifetime, I found a book I’d been searching for for over a decade and placed an order only to have the bookseller discover that they apparently had either sold the book, lost it or had it stolen). It’s my go-to for used books.
elcapitan 4y ago
With books, Amazon has become the opposite of a search engine for me. I have to use external resources to actually find the right titles, to enter them 1:1 into Amazon search to get to the books. Context based discovery has become next to impossible (which I used it before a lot for). Something must have changed in their indexing algorithm a while ago. Also many results are flooded with garbage, like some ridiculous "notebooks" with similar titles to the searched book or product name.
- diamondap 4y ago
  Amazon kind of gave up on discovery, at least for books, when they realized they could make more money running ads. I sell books on Amazon. Years ago, their book pages had two carousels of "similar titles" on each book detail page. Similar titles were selected by some pretty helpful algorithms based on what purchasers of the current title had also purchased, as well as some other secret sauce. At the time, ads weren't very prominent, and they were profitable for authors. I could buy them for 5 cents a click and even if only one in fifty clicks resulted in a purchase, I made money. Now, most of the algorithmic recommendations are gone, and for many ads, Amazon suggests bids of $2.50 or more per click. Those clicks bring in money whether Amazon makes a sale or not. To some extent, they've given up on matching customers to the best or most suitable products. Why should they work that hard if ads are more profitable? They've also had problems with piracy and counterfeits, as mentioned in this article. I heard a radio interview with a Target executive a couple years ago where a journalist said, "Amazon is underpricing you on everything. How do you plan to stay in business?" She said, "We vet every product on our shelves. We know who makes it and where, whether it's legit, and whether it contains lead paint and parts kids can choke on. Try to find that info on Amazon." The reporter didn't seem too impressed at the time, but the Target woman clearly saw where things were going. As the quality, authenticity, and reliability of Amazon's merchandise has declined, people are starting to notice. I'm not sure this is a problem they will ever have the will to fix. While they break even or lose money on genuine goods they have to ship for free, profits from third party sellers and Chinese drop shippers keep the retail operation afloat.
  - rmbyrro 4y ago
antonymy 4y ago
I'm the same way. I used to say "at least you can rely on books bought on Amazon" but now you can't even say that much. Alibris or eBay are more reliable online retailers for books nowadays.
- chucky_z 4y ago
  Alibris is really great, and I've gotten a few hand written notes from bookstores I've bought from. Even if they're fake I'm a sucker for these kinds of things.
iasay 4y ago
I do similar. I use Amazon to find the ISBN number of the book I want then search for it on ebay and buy the cheapest second hand copy.
- HarryHirsch 4y ago
  Besides, on Ebay you usually get a photograph of the actual book or the seller is a known quantity. No such luck with Amazon.
- dhc02 4y ago
  You can also go to bookshop.org, buy the book there (usually for about the same price as Amazon), and most of the profit goes to a local bookstore (which you can choose) instead of a big search engine with warehouses.
nikanj 4y ago
Is it a problem though, when it's not affecting their business in any way?
iLoveOncall 4y ago
I have thousands of orders on Amazon and have never received something different than what I expected. Have I received items that were crap? Sure, because I chose to go with the noname item from the random seller for cost reasons. If it’s unusable I just return it. That said, I don’t think I have even a 1% return rate. Buy items with a few reviews and read the top reviews instead of only trusting the star system and you’ll get exactly what you paid for 99% of the time (and will get your money back the remaining 1% of the time).
- nirvdrum 4y ago
  It's more involved than that. You can buy a brand name product shipped and sold by Amazon.com and still end up with a counterfeit item because Amazon mixes inventory with third party sellers.
KerrAvon 4y ago
What amazes me is that the FTC doesn't address the problem. You'd think they'd care. This has been going on for years; you really can't tell whether you're buying genuine products or not on Amazon anymore. I've stopped buying anything where I actually care about the provenance (like power tools and anything personal hygiene related) on Amazon.
- mountainb 4y ago
  The FTC does do some things, but below a certain threshold it doesn’t bother. There is lots and lots and lots of crime that does not get prosecuted or otherwise litigated.
  - hellcow 4y ago
    Surely one of the largest businesses in America facilitating fraud en masse has to meet said threshold.
    - bwb 4y ago
      if the big 5 publishers and others would complain it would prob help. At some point its about the amount of damages and if they can make a statement. Things move slow so it could be coming...
b8 4y ago
https://isbn.nu/ https://isbn.nu/ is what I use to find the lowest price for a book. I saw it on Aaron Swartz's weblog I think.
brownbat 4y ago
Counterfeit DVD box sets are pretty rampant. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zwa9uKIYhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zwa9uKIYhM I remember getting obviously burned DVDs run through terrible label makers back in the day. Now they're copying all the the art and packaging for box sets. I'm both impressed at the work they put in, and also confused why they occasionally leave obvious errors like typos on the box after all that work.
newman8r 4y ago
And if you want fresh product for any reason, ordering directly from the company is the best way to ensure that.

randcraw 4y ago

A better search engine (esp for used books) is BookFinder: https://bookfinder.com https://bookfinder.com. Between it and Goodreads, which has better ratings anyway, you can avoid Amazon entirely.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
simcop2387 4y ago
That's not avoiding them entirely, but it does avoid their store front for discovery. GoodReads is owned wholly by Amazon.
solardev 4y ago
...and aside from Goodreads (which is owned by Amazon), bookfinder is also hosted behind Amazon Cloudfront. No matter where you go and what you do, Amazon wins, lol. There's https://www.indiebound.org/ https://www.indiebound.org/ at least, which lets you search the inventory of local bookstores. I've also had good luck ordering used books from https://www.thriftbooks.com/ https://www.thriftbooks.com/ instead of Amazon.
fernly 4y ago
Bookfinder is hella useful but sometimes, especially for pre-ISBN books, https://www.addall.com/ https://www.addall.com/ has wider coverage.
dhosek 4y ago
I’ve been using bookfinder since it was mxbf.com There have been some long out of print hard to find books that I was able to find thanks to them (although in one case early in the site’s lifetime, I found a book I’d been searching for for over a decade and placed an order only to have the bookseller discover that they apparently had either sold the book, lost it or had it stolen). It’s my go-to for used books.

elcapitan 4y ago

With books, Amazon has become the opposite of a search engine for me. I have to use external resources to actually find the right titles, to enter them 1:1 into Amazon search to get to the books. Context based discovery has become next to impossible (which I used it before a lot for). Something must have changed in their indexing algorithm a while ago. Also many results are flooded with garbage, like some ridiculous "notebooks" with similar titles to the searched book or product name.

diamondap 4y ago
Amazon kind of gave up on discovery, at least for books, when they realized they could make more money running ads. I sell books on Amazon. Years ago, their book pages had two carousels of "similar titles" on each book detail page. Similar titles were selected by some pretty helpful algorithms based on what purchasers of the current title had also purchased, as well as some other secret sauce. At the time, ads weren't very prominent, and they were profitable for authors. I could buy them for 5 cents a click and even if only one in fifty clicks resulted in a purchase, I made money. Now, most of the algorithmic recommendations are gone, and for many ads, Amazon suggests bids of $2.50 or more per click. Those clicks bring in money whether Amazon makes a sale or not. To some extent, they've given up on matching customers to the best or most suitable products. Why should they work that hard if ads are more profitable? They've also had problems with piracy and counterfeits, as mentioned in this article. I heard a radio interview with a Target executive a couple years ago where a journalist said, "Amazon is underpricing you on everything. How do you plan to stay in business?" She said, "We vet every product on our shelves. We know who makes it and where, whether it's legit, and whether it contains lead paint and parts kids can choke on. Try to find that info on Amazon." The reporter didn't seem too impressed at the time, but the Target woman clearly saw where things were going. As the quality, authenticity, and reliability of Amazon's merchandise has declined, people are starting to notice. I'm not sure this is a problem they will ever have the will to fix. While they break even or lose money on genuine goods they have to ship for free, profits from third party sellers and Chinese drop shippers keep the retail operation afloat.
- rmbyrro 4y ago

antonymy 4y ago

I'm the same way. I used to say "at least you can rely on books bought on Amazon" but now you can't even say that much. Alibris or eBay are more reliable online retailers for books nowadays.

chucky_z 4y ago
Alibris is really great, and I've gotten a few hand written notes from bookstores I've bought from. Even if they're fake I'm a sucker for these kinds of things.

iasay 4y ago

I do similar. I use Amazon to find the ISBN number of the book I want then search for it on ebay and buy the cheapest second hand copy.

HarryHirsch 4y ago
Besides, on Ebay you usually get a photograph of the actual book or the seller is a known quantity. No such luck with Amazon.
dhc02 4y ago
You can also go to bookshop.org, buy the book there (usually for about the same price as Amazon), and most of the profit goes to a local bookstore (which you can choose) instead of a big search engine with warehouses.

nikanj 4y ago

Is it a problem though, when it's not affecting their business in any way?

iLoveOncall 4y ago

I have thousands of orders on Amazon and have never received something different than what I expected. Have I received items that were crap? Sure, because I chose to go with the noname item from the random seller for cost reasons. If it’s unusable I just return it. That said, I don’t think I have even a 1% return rate. Buy items with a few reviews and read the top reviews instead of only trusting the star system and you’ll get exactly what you paid for 99% of the time (and will get your money back the remaining 1% of the time).

nirvdrum 4y ago
It's more involved than that. You can buy a brand name product shipped and sold by Amazon.com and still end up with a counterfeit item because Amazon mixes inventory with third party sellers.

KerrAvon 4y ago

What amazes me is that the FTC doesn't address the problem. You'd think they'd care. This has been going on for years; you really can't tell whether you're buying genuine products or not on Amazon anymore. I've stopped buying anything where I actually care about the provenance (like power tools and anything personal hygiene related) on Amazon.

mountainb 4y ago
The FTC does do some things, but below a certain threshold it doesn’t bother. There is lots and lots and lots of crime that does not get prosecuted or otherwise litigated.
- hellcow 4y ago
  Surely one of the largest businesses in America facilitating fraud en masse has to meet said threshold.
  - bwb 4y ago
    if the big 5 publishers and others would complain it would prob help. At some point its about the amount of damages and if they can make a statement. Things move slow so it could be coming...

b8 4y ago

https://isbn.nu/ https://isbn.nu/ is what I use to find the lowest price for a book. I saw it on Aaron Swartz's weblog I think.

brownbat 4y ago

Counterfeit DVD box sets are pretty rampant. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zwa9uKIYhM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zwa9uKIYhM I remember getting obviously burned DVDs run through terrible label makers back in the day. Now they're copying all the the art and packaging for box sets. I'm both impressed at the work they put in, and also confused why they occasionally leave obvious errors like typos on the box after all that work.

newman8r 4y ago

And if you want fresh product for any reason, ordering directly from the company is the best way to ensure that.