4 ms·

What alternative would you propose?

benatkin 4y ago
I would choose "very well educated". IMO you can't really judge happiness without an appreciation for different ways to be happy. I'm probably myopic in my idea of happiness because I haven't had children, but I'm pretty sure that a many people who have had children but not an education are as well. http://www.paulgraham.com/kids.html http://www.paulgraham.com/kids.html
jstarfish 4y ago
Use the suicide rate as an inverse metric. "Happiness" is subjective, but suicide is as objective an expression of un-happiness as it gets. It's just an icky and emotional topic nobody wants to acknowledge. I have a good laugh when free shit is used as an indicator of happiness though. Prisoners get free food, education and healthcare. The state will even take your children off your hands. Working is optional. Prison surely must be the happiest place on earth!
- notch656a 4y ago
  A society where 1% live in hell and commit suicide and 99% are perfectly content, is more happy than one where 100% are just happy enough to not off themselves and no more.
  - jstarfish 4y ago
    That logic justifies slavery.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      Your words not mine. From this I conclude you believe some things never found in "that logic": a) Slavery improves societal happiness b) Maximizing happiness justifies coercion Thankfully most people don't share your values.
    - rendall 4y ago
      > That logic justifies slavery. That to me looks only like an observation, not an argument in favor of anything in particular. Personally speaking, I would not be happy if 1% of my fellow citizens were tormented so that I along with my 99% cohort could be happy, paradoxical as that is. Let's use the observation to understand what's happening in our respective societies and make things better for everyone.
  - rendall 4y ago
    This reminds me of the short story by Ursula K. LeGuin, "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas", wherein Omelas, an ecstatically happy utopia, depends for its existence on the torment of one single child, kept in a basement dungeon. Citizens can view the child any time they please. Some never do, some only once, some quite often. Some, very few, after viewing the child, leave the city forever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Om...

I would choose "very well educated". IMO you can't really judge happiness without an appreciation for different ways to be happy. I'm probably myopic in my idea of happiness because I haven't had children, but I'm pretty sure that a many people who have had children but not an education are as well. http://www.paulgraham.com/kids.html http://www.paulgraham.com/kids.html

jstarfish 4y ago

Use the suicide rate as an inverse metric. "Happiness" is subjective, but suicide is as objective an expression of un-happiness as it gets. It's just an icky and emotional topic nobody wants to acknowledge. I have a good laugh when free shit is used as an indicator of happiness though. Prisoners get free food, education and healthcare. The state will even take your children off your hands. Working is optional. Prison surely must be the happiest place on earth!

notch656a 4y ago
A society where 1% live in hell and commit suicide and 99% are perfectly content, is more happy than one where 100% are just happy enough to not off themselves and no more.
- jstarfish 4y ago
  That logic justifies slavery.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Your words not mine. From this I conclude you believe some things never found in "that logic": a) Slavery improves societal happiness b) Maximizing happiness justifies coercion Thankfully most people don't share your values.
  - rendall 4y ago
    > That logic justifies slavery. That to me looks only like an observation, not an argument in favor of anything in particular. Personally speaking, I would not be happy if 1% of my fellow citizens were tormented so that I along with my 99% cohort could be happy, paradoxical as that is. Let's use the observation to understand what's happening in our respective societies and make things better for everyone.
- rendall 4y ago
  This reminds me of the short story by Ursula K. LeGuin, "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas", wherein Omelas, an ecstatically happy utopia, depends for its existence on the torment of one single child, kept in a basement dungeon. Citizens can view the child any time they please. Some never do, some only once, some quite often. Some, very few, after viewing the child, leave the city forever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Om...