5 ms·

Automakers Are Starting to Drop Am Radio in New Cars

22 points by throw0101c 4y ago

NonNefarious 4y ago
Dumb. But then… people are ignorant.
defrost 4y ago
>> Already, EVs from Audi, BMW, Porsche, Tesla, and Volvo are sold without AM radios, and it's been that way for years. Tesla aside, the primary reason for European car makers to drop AM radios is the decline of AM radio itself in Europe. While it's a better, albeit lower grade, band for long distances and ieally suited to the sprawl of the central north american midwest .. it's FM that is king in the more compact European environs.
- brtkdotse 4y ago
  I don’t think I’ve even seen an AM station as long as I’ve been listening to radio (since the early 90s)
  - themodelplumber 4y ago
    It's kind of funny to read that because I sometimes browse European MWDX write-ups on the web. DX is a bit of an addicting hobby, not dissimilar to fishing or hunting in a way. It's fun to read about someone in Finland picking up an AM commercial broadcast from Brazil. You can start thinking about watts-per-km and pretty soon you have your own record book or spreadsheet going. https://www.wbaa.org/general-news/2022-04-26/finnish-am-radio-hobbyist-hears-wbaa-from-over-4-000-miles-away https://www.wbaa.org/general-news/2022-04-26/finnish-am-radi...
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    Oh they are there, but its not something most young (<40) would ever listen to. Classical music, religious ones, some official state-sponsored ones. Behind iron curtain people only had the state ones, so some old folks are often still used to have it tuned and never bothered to change.
    - dewey 4y ago
      Are you sure you are talking about AM and not just regular FM? I just checked for the European country I'm from and all the regular radio stations (state-sponsored, private, classical) are only available via digital or UKW (FM).
    - krzyk 4y ago
      I'm from behind iron curtain, I have never ever heard anything on AM, I always thought it is some American thing. State sponsored are on FM.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      Classical music over AM? The quality must be awful.
    - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
      They are where, exactly? Which country? Certainly not France.
- chha 4y ago
  FM is also on the way out, being replaced by DAB. Here in Norway the switchover has already been done, other countries in Europe are also working on it but taking longer time. [1] [19 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting#Countries_using_DAB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting#Cou...
  - defrost 4y ago
    Yep, my bad :-) I meant to type DAB, had a mild brain fart & ran with FM for want of a void to fill. Take my points and prosper.
  - rightbyte 4y ago
    Forcing everyone to buy new radios will just kill radio. Especially for cars.
    - float4 4y ago
      That's why many countries choose to wait until DAB+ has overtaken FM. In the Netherlands FM will at least exist till 2027 and will only be phased out once 70% of radio traffic goes through DAB+. Also, some ISP's in the Netherlands have already stopped delivering analog radio over coax and most people I know actually did just... buy new radios / DAB+ receivers.
  - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
    It will take que a long time and I don't it will be successful. It will be easier to sell internet radios then DAB+ ones. I tried to use DAB+ with the stations I listen to on FM (France Radio ones, west of Paris). I have reception holes while FM is perfect. I did not notice any improvement in the quality of the sound.
iasay 4y ago
This is a good thing. AM needs to go. It's the least efficient way of transmitting audio. From a technical perspective 2/3 of the power of an AM transmission is wasted with the carrier and that has no information in it at all. If you have a 30kw transmitter, 20kw is just burned on crappy modulation scheme. Edit: fix typo
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  This comment illustrates why it's confusing to have the AM band and AM mode namespace overlap problem in the US. Parent is referring to the AM mode, not the band. However the band is unique and important in a lot of situations due to its propagation characteristics. Also since CW is considered AM...the mode comments may even be questionable...
  - iasay 4y ago
    They are one and another when it comes to broadcast. Tied in unison until they are dead. As for the LF/MF/HF propagation modes, they are terribly unpredictable as anything other than line of sight. Groundwave <3MHz and lower, if you're lucky. Non-deterministic propagation is interesting if you're an amateur radio operator or SW DXer but it's not important and is quite frankly a liability if you have to rely on it or have a target audience. Sure you can bash out some CW to Tasmania from Europe and tell a great story but you're probably dead if you need it at a specific time when the sun is sleepy. For ref, ex CW operator. I use a UHF radio computer unit with a fruit on the back now.
    - themodelplumber 4y ago
      Strange to read LOS in there in combination with the "non-important" argument to follow it. LOS is non-important for all practical reasons when you have the very predictable ionospheric propagation effect and a favorite talk show. That WiFi exists...the more the merrier...
      - iasay 4y ago
agildehaus 4y ago
Is this just dropping analog AM? What about HDRadio AM modes like MA1/MA3?
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  AFAIK the exact mode doesn't usually figure into what is a frequency/band-related issue. Signals are just spraying all over the spectrum in these darn-fangled electro-vehicles! Who needs a kilohertz-band source anyway? But the article does a good job pointing out that some carmakers are able to make the band work fine while others treat it as if their cars are made from cheap AliExpress parts. That's kind of an embarrassing point if pressed home, IMO.
- Johnythree 4y ago
  AM HDRadio is essentially limited to the USA. Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) broadcasting was expected to become standard (on the MW band) in Europe and Asia/Pacific, however the trials have been a complete failure. Strangely enough, DRM has been a huge success in India.
TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
> The frequency has largely been superseded by the DAB format, which is a more advanced form of radio broadcasting with better audio quality Better audio quality? People suffering with 64kbps might beg to differ
cvccvroomvroom 4y ago
Here is the $35 universal upgrade with a renewable energy option. It even does shortwave and weather bands. Solar Hand Crank Emergency Radio https://a.co/66NqV7M https://a.co/66NqV7M Edit: I don't care about SW, WB, CB, AM, FM, or Sirius as standard. They serve no purpose for me and most people. Maybe people who enjoy commercials, mainstream or extremist hate radio could enjoy some them with their innate static and reception problems. Plus, AM is an inferior encoding technology and band requiring a lot of power and nearly line-of-sight, so forget it around hills or mountains. Digital with turbo coding moonwalks over its grave.
BrandoElFollito 4y ago
AM in Europe is non existent. I sometimes switch to AM my car radio and launch the discovery mode. I get two or three stations, only one being barely understandable. I have no idea why AM is still present here, nobody has used it for decades.
iancmceachern 4y ago
I wonder how much thos saves on each radio, a buck?
eimrine 4y ago
These are new cars, they do have a computer. Why not just to write an app and bake a chip for having AM, CB, SSB, LPD/PMR and any other frequencies and modulations if somebody needs that? Dropping AM saves nothing.
- Johnythree 4y ago
  The problem is interference: Most modern cars are a nightmare of radio interference which is an absolute headache for manufacturers to eliminate. And the interference is much worse on low frequencies and especially for AM receivers. Much easier to simply delete the AM radio option. Source: Was an automotive EMC engineer for many years.
- daviddever23box 4y ago
  Each one of those requires testing: it's not about the capabilities but the commitments. If every vehicle had internet access, one could conceivably remove FM (and possibly SiriusXM satellite radio).
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    To depends on households to have an internet connection is a mistake already. Applying it to cars is even worse as they are on the move and often reach areas with weak or no signal.
  - dewey 4y ago
    > If every vehicle had internet access Trains in Germany don't even get consistent internet signal when moving through less populated areas so cars having internet-only radio is even more unrealistic.
    - netsharc 4y ago
      Maybe they could buffer the broadcast (e.g. music played yesterday) for such cases. I remember being in an Audi in 2012 which could automatically record the traffic announcements - the radio station would send a signal that the host is about to read out some traffic info, and most cars' entertainment units have a setting to switch to that broadcast, pausing the CD player. The Audi had an auto-record feature in case you needed to hear them again.

22 points by throw0101c 4y ago

Dumb. But then… people are ignorant.

>> Already, EVs from Audi, BMW, Porsche, Tesla, and Volvo are sold without AM radios, and it's been that way for years. Tesla aside, the primary reason for European car makers to drop AM radios is the decline of AM radio itself in Europe. While it's a better, albeit lower grade, band for long distances and ieally suited to the sprawl of the central north american midwest .. it's FM that is king in the more compact European environs.

brtkdotse 4y ago
I don’t think I’ve even seen an AM station as long as I’ve been listening to radio (since the early 90s)
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  It's kind of funny to read that because I sometimes browse European MWDX write-ups on the web. DX is a bit of an addicting hobby, not dissimilar to fishing or hunting in a way. It's fun to read about someone in Finland picking up an AM commercial broadcast from Brazil. You can start thinking about watts-per-km and pretty soon you have your own record book or spreadsheet going. https://www.wbaa.org/general-news/2022-04-26/finnish-am-radio-hobbyist-hears-wbaa-from-over-4-000-miles-away https://www.wbaa.org/general-news/2022-04-26/finnish-am-radi...
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Oh they are there, but its not something most young (<40) would ever listen to. Classical music, religious ones, some official state-sponsored ones. Behind iron curtain people only had the state ones, so some old folks are often still used to have it tuned and never bothered to change.
  - dewey 4y ago
    Are you sure you are talking about AM and not just regular FM? I just checked for the European country I'm from and all the regular radio stations (state-sponsored, private, classical) are only available via digital or UKW (FM).
  - krzyk 4y ago
    I'm from behind iron curtain, I have never ever heard anything on AM, I always thought it is some American thing. State sponsored are on FM.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    Classical music over AM? The quality must be awful.
  - BrandoElFollito 4y ago
    They are where, exactly? Which country? Certainly not France.
chha 4y ago
FM is also on the way out, being replaced by DAB. Here in Norway the switchover has already been done, other countries in Europe are also working on it but taking longer time. [1] [19 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting#Countries_using_DAB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting#Cou...
- defrost 4y ago
  Yep, my bad :-) I meant to type DAB, had a mild brain fart & ran with FM for want of a void to fill. Take my points and prosper.
- rightbyte 4y ago
  Forcing everyone to buy new radios will just kill radio. Especially for cars.
  - float4 4y ago
    That's why many countries choose to wait until DAB+ has overtaken FM. In the Netherlands FM will at least exist till 2027 and will only be phased out once 70% of radio traffic goes through DAB+. Also, some ISP's in the Netherlands have already stopped delivering analog radio over coax and most people I know actually did just... buy new radios / DAB+ receivers.
- BrandoElFollito 4y ago
  It will take que a long time and I don't it will be successful. It will be easier to sell internet radios then DAB+ ones. I tried to use DAB+ with the stations I listen to on FM (France Radio ones, west of Paris). I have reception holes while FM is perfect. I did not notice any improvement in the quality of the sound.

iasay 4y ago

This is a good thing. AM needs to go. It's the least efficient way of transmitting audio. From a technical perspective 2/3 of the power of an AM transmission is wasted with the carrier and that has no information in it at all. If you have a 30kw transmitter, 20kw is just burned on crappy modulation scheme. Edit: fix typo

themodelplumber 4y ago
This comment illustrates why it's confusing to have the AM band and AM mode namespace overlap problem in the US. Parent is referring to the AM mode, not the band. However the band is unique and important in a lot of situations due to its propagation characteristics. Also since CW is considered AM...the mode comments may even be questionable...
- iasay 4y ago
  They are one and another when it comes to broadcast. Tied in unison until they are dead. As for the LF/MF/HF propagation modes, they are terribly unpredictable as anything other than line of sight. Groundwave <3MHz and lower, if you're lucky. Non-deterministic propagation is interesting if you're an amateur radio operator or SW DXer but it's not important and is quite frankly a liability if you have to rely on it or have a target audience. Sure you can bash out some CW to Tasmania from Europe and tell a great story but you're probably dead if you need it at a specific time when the sun is sleepy. For ref, ex CW operator. I use a UHF radio computer unit with a fruit on the back now.
  - themodelplumber 4y ago
    Strange to read LOS in there in combination with the "non-important" argument to follow it. LOS is non-important for all practical reasons when you have the very predictable ionospheric propagation effect and a favorite talk show. That WiFi exists...the more the merrier...
    - iasay 4y ago

agildehaus 4y ago

Is this just dropping analog AM? What about HDRadio AM modes like MA1/MA3?

themodelplumber 4y ago
AFAIK the exact mode doesn't usually figure into what is a frequency/band-related issue. Signals are just spraying all over the spectrum in these darn-fangled electro-vehicles! Who needs a kilohertz-band source anyway? But the article does a good job pointing out that some carmakers are able to make the band work fine while others treat it as if their cars are made from cheap AliExpress parts. That's kind of an embarrassing point if pressed home, IMO.
Johnythree 4y ago
AM HDRadio is essentially limited to the USA. Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) broadcasting was expected to become standard (on the MW band) in Europe and Asia/Pacific, however the trials have been a complete failure. Strangely enough, DRM has been a huge success in India.

TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago

> The frequency has largely been superseded by the DAB format, which is a more advanced form of radio broadcasting with better audio quality Better audio quality? People suffering with 64kbps might beg to differ

cvccvroomvroom 4y ago

Here is the $35 universal upgrade with a renewable energy option. It even does shortwave and weather bands. Solar Hand Crank Emergency Radio https://a.co/66NqV7M https://a.co/66NqV7M Edit: I don't care about SW, WB, CB, AM, FM, or Sirius as standard. They serve no purpose for me and most people. Maybe people who enjoy commercials, mainstream or extremist hate radio could enjoy some them with their innate static and reception problems. Plus, AM is an inferior encoding technology and band requiring a lot of power and nearly line-of-sight, so forget it around hills or mountains. Digital with turbo coding moonwalks over its grave.

BrandoElFollito 4y ago

AM in Europe is non existent. I sometimes switch to AM my car radio and launch the discovery mode. I get two or three stations, only one being barely understandable. I have no idea why AM is still present here, nobody has used it for decades.

iancmceachern 4y ago

I wonder how much thos saves on each radio, a buck?

eimrine 4y ago

These are new cars, they do have a computer. Why not just to write an app and bake a chip for having AM, CB, SSB, LPD/PMR and any other frequencies and modulations if somebody needs that? Dropping AM saves nothing.

Johnythree 4y ago
The problem is interference: Most modern cars are a nightmare of radio interference which is an absolute headache for manufacturers to eliminate. And the interference is much worse on low frequencies and especially for AM receivers. Much easier to simply delete the AM radio option. Source: Was an automotive EMC engineer for many years.
daviddever23box 4y ago
Each one of those requires testing: it's not about the capabilities but the commitments. If every vehicle had internet access, one could conceivably remove FM (and possibly SiriusXM satellite radio).
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  To depends on households to have an internet connection is a mistake already. Applying it to cars is even worse as they are on the move and often reach areas with weak or no signal.
- dewey 4y ago
  > If every vehicle had internet access Trains in Germany don't even get consistent internet signal when moving through less populated areas so cars having internet-only radio is even more unrealistic.
  - netsharc 4y ago
    Maybe they could buffer the broadcast (e.g. music played yesterday) for such cases. I remember being in an Audi in 2012 which could automatically record the traffic announcements - the radio station would send a signal that the host is about to read out some traffic info, and most cars' entertainment units have a setting to switch to that broadcast, pausing the CD player. The Audi had an auto-record feature in case you needed to hear them again.