4 ms·

At least the first gen had issues with linux sleep and battery drain. Build quality looks average. It's not a bad device; just not too compelling at the price p

At least the first gen had issues with linux sleep and battery drain. Build quality looks average. It's not a bad device; just not too compelling at the price point.

lhl 4y ago
The Linux battery issues appear to be fixed for the first gen models: https://community.frame.work/t/linux-battery-life-tuning/6665 https://community.frame.work/t/linux-battery-life-tuning/666... "After setting these two items, on the lowest brightness idle you will see the CPU hit C8 states on the second tab of powertop and the overall usage be roughly 2.5W if you have a single DIMM. Without ASPM enabled, the power usage will be between 3-4W." Hanging around the Framework forums https://community.frame.work/ https://community.frame.work/ made me feel a lot more comfortable w/ them and I put in a pre-order for a DIY barebones system. To me the price difference didn't seem too bad (I have my own 64GB DDR4-3200 and 2TB PCIe 4.0 M.2s already). Even if there's a premium, it's a bit weird to argue against the lack of "differentiation" since not another laptop manufacturer offers a parts store like https://frame.work/marketplace https://frame.work/marketplace or the ability/support to swap or build your own expansion cards. https://frame.work/marketplace/expansion-cards https://frame.work/marketplace/expansion-cards https://community.frame.work/c/developer-program/85 https://community.frame.work/c/developer-program/85 Maybe it doesn't matter to you or others, but it's a heck of a unique differentiator IMO.
- bubblethink 4y ago
  That's worked around, not really fixed. There are quite a few Clevo or other generic laptops that don't solder ram, storage, and wifi. That's 90% of what you care about. So framework's value add on top of that is not that high for the price premium. The expansion cards are perhaps useful, but I don't see the draw. Their barebones diy edition even before storage and ram is in the 1.2-1.5k range based on the processor. I find that a tough sell.
  - lhl 4y ago
    The mainboards are swappable at $400-1000 which means that if you like the chassis, your next upgrade would be considerably cheaper (and because the CAD files are available, you can easily buy or 3D print a case to use the old mainboard as a NUC). Although personally, the Framework doesn't seem so outside the pricing for the laptops I've been comparing it to anyway, tbt (in my case: ultrabooks that are Linux friendly with decent displays and that can get to 64GB of RAM) - the Slimbook Executive 14, Tuxedo Pulse 15 Gen2, Star Labs Starbook 14, are all around the same ballpark price. The HP Dev One is a bit cheaper, but on the flip side, the HP Elitebook 845 Gen9 is double the price. As for the marketplace, the keyboard, trackpad, case components, battery, and displays are also easily replaceable/repairable, which certainly matters a lot to me and I'd imagine would matter a lot to people who are looking at being able to upgrade or keep using the laptop longer term, or that are concerned about value/TCO. I think their are enough people that would be sold just on the "repairability" angle, but the modding culture stuff is cool too. I'm a big fan of some of the stuff happening, like this Eink display mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=480xteW2wq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=480xteW2wq4

At least the first gen had issues with linux sleep and battery drain. Build quality looks average. It's not a bad device; just not too compelling at the price point.

lhl 4y ago

The Linux battery issues appear to be fixed for the first gen models: https://community.frame.work/t/linux-battery-life-tuning/6665 https://community.frame.work/t/linux-battery-life-tuning/666... "After setting these two items, on the lowest brightness idle you will see the CPU hit C8 states on the second tab of powertop and the overall usage be roughly 2.5W if you have a single DIMM. Without ASPM enabled, the power usage will be between 3-4W." Hanging around the Framework forums https://community.frame.work/ https://community.frame.work/ made me feel a lot more comfortable w/ them and I put in a pre-order for a DIY barebones system. To me the price difference didn't seem too bad (I have my own 64GB DDR4-3200 and 2TB PCIe 4.0 M.2s already). Even if there's a premium, it's a bit weird to argue against the lack of "differentiation" since not another laptop manufacturer offers a parts store like https://frame.work/marketplace https://frame.work/marketplace or the ability/support to swap or build your own expansion cards. https://frame.work/marketplace/expansion-cards https://frame.work/marketplace/expansion-cards https://community.frame.work/c/developer-program/85 https://community.frame.work/c/developer-program/85 Maybe it doesn't matter to you or others, but it's a heck of a unique differentiator IMO.

bubblethink 4y ago
That's worked around, not really fixed. There are quite a few Clevo or other generic laptops that don't solder ram, storage, and wifi. That's 90% of what you care about. So framework's value add on top of that is not that high for the price premium. The expansion cards are perhaps useful, but I don't see the draw. Their barebones diy edition even before storage and ram is in the 1.2-1.5k range based on the processor. I find that a tough sell.
- lhl 4y ago
  The mainboards are swappable at $400-1000 which means that if you like the chassis, your next upgrade would be considerably cheaper (and because the CAD files are available, you can easily buy or 3D print a case to use the old mainboard as a NUC). Although personally, the Framework doesn't seem so outside the pricing for the laptops I've been comparing it to anyway, tbt (in my case: ultrabooks that are Linux friendly with decent displays and that can get to 64GB of RAM) - the Slimbook Executive 14, Tuxedo Pulse 15 Gen2, Star Labs Starbook 14, are all around the same ballpark price. The HP Dev One is a bit cheaper, but on the flip side, the HP Elitebook 845 Gen9 is double the price. As for the marketplace, the keyboard, trackpad, case components, battery, and displays are also easily replaceable/repairable, which certainly matters a lot to me and I'd imagine would matter a lot to people who are looking at being able to upgrade or keep using the laptop longer term, or that are concerned about value/TCO. I think their are enough people that would be sold just on the "repairability" angle, but the modding culture stuff is cool too. I'm a big fan of some of the stuff happening, like this Eink display mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=480xteW2wq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=480xteW2wq4