4 ms·

What do engineers think of Product Managers?

2 points by mgh2 4y ago

ggm 4y ago
Speaking as a product manager myself, they could not possibly think less of them than I do: I feel I contribute significantly less to the success of the product deliverable than almost anyone else in the team.
phendrenad2 4y ago
I think... it's better to have no product managers than to have ineffectual product managers. And to be effective, you really need 4+ product managers comprising a team. You want them to be able to stand up to both engineering and management. You want them to be a force within the company. Otherwise, you end up with powerless product managers who just get paid to do nothing. Some companies have 4+ product managers, but they embed them in different teams, and forbid them from working together. Seems like a huge mistake to me.
superchroma 4y ago
I've definitely enjoyed working at companies without them more than at those with them. I'd like to meet one that actually seriously added value as I think there'd be a learning opportunity.
rmk 4y ago
My comments pertain to Enterprise products, and less towards consumer products. I have worked on consumer products intermittently and have found Product Managers even less valuable there. Product Managers are useful but they should not work directly with engineers. Engineering Managers should be the people who work with PMs. PMs talking directly to engineers is a recipe for scope creep, complete requirements misses, and worse, misallocation of valuable engineering time on what could be "trivial" enhancements or features (from the PM's perspective). The best Product Managers work as a team with Engineering Managers. Overall, as an Engineer, I think Product Managers are 90% fluff. They are often not very knowledgeable about the industry, and they often do not have enough clout or political capital to tell upper management when they are on a wild goose chase. As a result they are often enablers of poorly-defined and consequently, poorly thought out products that are a nightmare to maintain and support that are not something the customer asked for. As they often come from nontechnical backgrounds, e.g., sales, or they are 'lapsed' engineers, they are not plugged into the actual product development dynamics in the team, but are often de-facto project managers owing to their position as go-betweens between sales, upper management and engineering teams. That is another black spot on their reputations with Engineers, who generally dislike Project Managers whether they are the PMP types or de-facto ones.

2 points by mgh2 4y ago

ggm 4y ago

Speaking as a product manager myself, they could not possibly think less of them than I do: I feel I contribute significantly less to the success of the product deliverable than almost anyone else in the team.

phendrenad2 4y ago

I think... it's better to have no product managers than to have ineffectual product managers. And to be effective, you really need 4+ product managers comprising a team. You want them to be able to stand up to both engineering and management. You want them to be a force within the company. Otherwise, you end up with powerless product managers who just get paid to do nothing. Some companies have 4+ product managers, but they embed them in different teams, and forbid them from working together. Seems like a huge mistake to me.

superchroma 4y ago

I've definitely enjoyed working at companies without them more than at those with them. I'd like to meet one that actually seriously added value as I think there'd be a learning opportunity.

rmk 4y ago

My comments pertain to Enterprise products, and less towards consumer products. I have worked on consumer products intermittently and have found Product Managers even less valuable there. Product Managers are useful but they should not work directly with engineers. Engineering Managers should be the people who work with PMs. PMs talking directly to engineers is a recipe for scope creep, complete requirements misses, and worse, misallocation of valuable engineering time on what could be "trivial" enhancements or features (from the PM's perspective). The best Product Managers work as a team with Engineering Managers. Overall, as an Engineer, I think Product Managers are 90% fluff. They are often not very knowledgeable about the industry, and they often do not have enough clout or political capital to tell upper management when they are on a wild goose chase. As a result they are often enablers of poorly-defined and consequently, poorly thought out products that are a nightmare to maintain and support that are not something the customer asked for. As they often come from nontechnical backgrounds, e.g., sales, or they are 'lapsed' engineers, they are not plugged into the actual product development dynamics in the team, but are often de-facto project managers owing to their position as go-betweens between sales, upper management and engineering teams. That is another black spot on their reputations with Engineers, who generally dislike Project Managers whether they are the PMP types or de-facto ones.