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I don't understand why Apple gets a free ride for manufacturing weapons components (via their acquisition of PA Semi) and having a CEO that owns a large chunk o

by 131072 18y ago

I don't understand why Apple gets a free ride for manufacturing weapons components (via their acquisition of PA Semi) and having a CEO that owns a large chunk of Disney, which is barely more than a swear word among the same people who appreciate their products on a technical level. The iPhone SDK issues are merely disappointing in comparison. You don't see two year old blog posts from the same group of people flaming Apple for not providing a wireless device of any kind for them to develop on, which is surely a bigger injustice by their logic. Where were these people when I wanted some apps for my RAZR? I think the Venn diagram of people who are affected by Apple's iPhone development policies, and the group of people who complain about them on the internet has a very small intersection, and if you add the group of people who can actually code, you could probably buy the lot of them a round of drinks for twenty bucks. Personally, as a veteran of the war of mendacity against common sense that is SOAP, I support anything that gets Dave Winer upset.

comatose_kid 18y ago
128K, doesn't ARM also manufacture weapons components? I'm assuming their CPUs (or Intel's FLASH parts) are used in weapons, along with toaster ovens.
- 131072 18y ago
  Oh sure, I understand that. It is a complex issue that is a great example of the tension between philosophical or moral ideals and the more atavistic parts of human nature. I feel it would be hypocritical for me to say I am against it, since I benefit from the security and prosperity (and technological development) that military developments provide (and I'm writing this on a Mac). It's hard to fly on an airliner that wasn't built by an arms manufacturer too, and there are plenty of other examples. What I mean is - you would think that the kind of people who write shrill blog posts about the iPhone SDK would be at least as incensed by these two points, and it's interesting that they have not emerged as anti-Apple memes in general, regardless of their validity. I'd have expected to see more 'OMG steve jobs makes the brains for cruise missiles and steals our culture with copyright extensions' stuff around. Surely those caused Apple to become 'finally evil' to these people?
unalone 18y ago
How is Disney a swear word? It churns out a lot of popular crap and it has Pixar making probably the best movies out there now. Steve Jobs made it company policy not to release "direct-to-DVD sequels". Remember that? Without that, Disney quality jumped a LOT (which, I know, just says how awful they HAD been). Meanwhile, they've reinstated their 2D animation department, which is BIG fun news and which might bring back the good old Disney. Why should we criticize them for making weapons components or for owning Disney? That has nothing to do with their products.
- 131072 18y ago
  Disney is typically cited as a major force behind the never-ending extension of copyright (the famous 'keep mickey out of the public domain' strategy). Disney has also put considerable resources into lobbying for ever-more-oppressive legal measures such as mandatory DRM hardware in computers. They are no friend of the typical hacker. Steve Jobs, as a major shareholder and board member, could influence this if he so chose. Apple also chose to continue its weapons-grade product lines when it purchased PA Semi. Maybe they have a contract they can't get out of, but they may well have had the choice to shut down or spin off those products. You can agree or not with those arguments, I'm not advocating for or against them. They don't affect my purchasing decisions (the best tool for the job in my current circumstances is a MacBook Pro so that's what I have). I make my living working for banks that no doubt finance far worse things. If Disney returns to form animation-wise I'll reward them with movie ticket purchases. It just seems to me that all the people posting "Apple is finally evil" linkbait nonsense could choose meatier targets than mistakes in developer relations, and the fact they choose not to means they're not even any good at being wrong. It's crappy linkbait blog post pollution that irritates me, not anything that Apple's doing.
  - delackner 18y ago
    "Maybe they have a contract they can't get out of" It really does pay to inform yourself before ranting. Worst case, you spent some time but your argument becomes more clear. Best case, you prevent yourself saying something uninformed and untrue. In this case, yes, Apple tried to close the military product line, and the US military strongly insisted that PA Semi continue producing their existing military products.

by 131072 18y ago

comatose_kid 18y ago

128K, doesn't ARM also manufacture weapons components? I'm assuming their CPUs (or Intel's FLASH parts) are used in weapons, along with toaster ovens.

131072 18y ago
Oh sure, I understand that. It is a complex issue that is a great example of the tension between philosophical or moral ideals and the more atavistic parts of human nature. I feel it would be hypocritical for me to say I am against it, since I benefit from the security and prosperity (and technological development) that military developments provide (and I'm writing this on a Mac). It's hard to fly on an airliner that wasn't built by an arms manufacturer too, and there are plenty of other examples. What I mean is - you would think that the kind of people who write shrill blog posts about the iPhone SDK would be at least as incensed by these two points, and it's interesting that they have not emerged as anti-Apple memes in general, regardless of their validity. I'd have expected to see more 'OMG steve jobs makes the brains for cruise missiles and steals our culture with copyright extensions' stuff around. Surely those caused Apple to become 'finally evil' to these people?

unalone 18y ago

How is Disney a swear word? It churns out a lot of popular crap and it has Pixar making probably the best movies out there now. Steve Jobs made it company policy not to release "direct-to-DVD sequels". Remember that? Without that, Disney quality jumped a LOT (which, I know, just says how awful they HAD been). Meanwhile, they've reinstated their 2D animation department, which is BIG fun news and which might bring back the good old Disney. Why should we criticize them for making weapons components or for owning Disney? That has nothing to do with their products.

131072 18y ago
Disney is typically cited as a major force behind the never-ending extension of copyright (the famous 'keep mickey out of the public domain' strategy). Disney has also put considerable resources into lobbying for ever-more-oppressive legal measures such as mandatory DRM hardware in computers. They are no friend of the typical hacker. Steve Jobs, as a major shareholder and board member, could influence this if he so chose. Apple also chose to continue its weapons-grade product lines when it purchased PA Semi. Maybe they have a contract they can't get out of, but they may well have had the choice to shut down or spin off those products. You can agree or not with those arguments, I'm not advocating for or against them. They don't affect my purchasing decisions (the best tool for the job in my current circumstances is a MacBook Pro so that's what I have). I make my living working for banks that no doubt finance far worse things. If Disney returns to form animation-wise I'll reward them with movie ticket purchases. It just seems to me that all the people posting "Apple is finally evil" linkbait nonsense could choose meatier targets than mistakes in developer relations, and the fact they choose not to means they're not even any good at being wrong. It's crappy linkbait blog post pollution that irritates me, not anything that Apple's doing.
- delackner 18y ago
  "Maybe they have a contract they can't get out of" It really does pay to inform yourself before ranting. Worst case, you spent some time but your argument becomes more clear. Best case, you prevent yourself saying something uninformed and untrue. In this case, yes, Apple tried to close the military product line, and the US military strongly insisted that PA Semi continue producing their existing military products.