4 ms·

Military officers and diplomats are pretty well compensated and have perks which include almost everything paid for. And also not having to deal with little kid

by nus07 4y ago

Military officers and diplomats are pretty well compensated and have perks which include almost everything paid for. And also not having to deal with little kids creating havoc. Teachers have to deal with low pay, little benefits and being judged in their personal lives. Pretty much an awful deal.

MomoXenosaga 4y ago
Education in our modern knowledge based meritocratic society is LITERALLY a matter of life or death. An entire person's future is decided at age 12. Get sent to the wrong high school and it has impact on your life expectancy FFS. And yet teachers are chronically underpaid and underappreciated.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  > An entire person's future is decided at age 12 Don't overstate your case.
WalterBright 4y ago
> little benefits Public school teachers get likely the best benefits package of any profession. Teacher pay in the Seattle area is up into the 6 figures. As for military officer pay, it's enough to finance a lower to middle class lifestyle.
- eesmith 4y ago
  What does "up into the 6 figures" mean? If I read https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Certificated-Non-Supervisory-2021-22.pdf https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Ce... correctly then indeed experienced non-supervisory teachers may make over $100K/year. But if you're really considering the maximum, then military officer pay is up into the $200K range, says https://www.federalpay.org/military#officer https://www.federalpay.org/military#officer . If "6 figures" is supposed to be average or median, https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary/seattle-wa https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-scho... says "The average Public School Teacher salary in Seattle, WA is $60,126 as of June 28, 2022, but the range typically falls between $50,222 and $73,312", with the 90-percentile at $85K. https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/finance/Budget/current-budget/ https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/finance/Budget/cu... says : > For the 2021-22 school year, a teacher in Seattle Public Schools costs approximately $131,525. This includes base salary, time responsibility incentive (TRI), contract days, tech days, medical, and other benefits. > Specific details include: Average Salary Total: $79,673 / Medical insurance: $12,212 / Other Benefits, and Payroll & Pension Taxes: $39,640 / Total Cost: $131,525 So that's 6 figures if you include all benefits. But military officers also have other benefits besides salary, like VA services for life, housing, and commissary access. As for "best benefits package of any profession", ... really? Better than, say, college president? And all those benefits come from at most $51,852/year on average? We software developers ("The average Software Developer salary is $70,497 as of June 28, 2022, but the salary range typically falls between $62,812 and $78,654." - https://www.salary.com/research/salary/recruiting/software-developer-salary https://www.salary.com/research/salary/recruiting/software-d...) have a higher salary than Seattle-area teachers. Why are our benefits worse, and what can we do to make them better?
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    You brought up software developers, and only mentioned salary. Again, talking salary without value of the benefits package is very incomplete and misleading. Software developers don't get pensions for life, for example. > college president? Are there "entry level" positions for college presidents? Of course not. It's not really considered a category of profession.
    - eesmith 4y ago
      Again, what does "up into the 6 figures" mean for both teacher and military officer pay? Because I am unable to find a source for total benefits for software developer. Microsoft, as another Seattle-area company, offers 50% matching contributions to 401(k), stock and cash bonuses, child daycare accounts, life insurance, public transit card, and more. But other companies will differ. Do you have any better numbers? You must have some idea, in order to judge that software developers have worse benefits than Seattle public school teachers. A lot of government employees get pensions like public school teachers do, so what else do teachers have which makes it likely the best benefits package of any profession? What am I missing? Since stock options, 50% matching to 401(k), etc are worse than what teachers get, what do software developers need to do to get a piece of that sweet pension benefit? Negotiate better? Start a union? Get laws passed? Start online discussions about the poor benefits in software development?
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        The teacher union salaries + benefits are not sustainable. They're a gigantic problem for state governments, and there's a huge overhang of unfunded pension benefits that keeps getting kicked down the road.
        eesmith 4y ago
        While other government employee salaries + benefits are sustainable and funded? What additional benefits do teachers get that make them so special? Nothing stands out when I compare the teacher pension and state patrol pension at https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/ https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/ . Military officer pay is up into the 6 figures. Their pension is "monthly annuity for life after 20 years of service. The annuity is based on a calculation of 2% per year served." (https://www.usa.gov/military-pay https://www.usa.gov/military-pay ) which is what TRS-2 does (https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/trs2/ https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/trs2/ ) for Washington teachers. Plus veterans get VA access and other benefits. I don't see what makes teachers' benefits so special.

by nus07 4y ago

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

Education in our modern knowledge based meritocratic society is LITERALLY a matter of life or death. An entire person's future is decided at age 12. Get sent to the wrong high school and it has impact on your life expectancy FFS. And yet teachers are chronically underpaid and underappreciated.

WalterBright 4y ago
> An entire person's future is decided at age 12 Don't overstate your case.

WalterBright 4y ago

> little benefits Public school teachers get likely the best benefits package of any profession. Teacher pay in the Seattle area is up into the 6 figures. As for military officer pay, it's enough to finance a lower to middle class lifestyle.

eesmith 4y ago
What does "up into the 6 figures" mean? If I read https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Certificated-Non-Supervisory-2021-22.pdf https://www.seattleschools.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Ce... correctly then indeed experienced non-supervisory teachers may make over $100K/year. But if you're really considering the maximum, then military officer pay is up into the $200K range, says https://www.federalpay.org/military#officer https://www.federalpay.org/military#officer . If "6 figures" is supposed to be average or median, https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-school-teacher-salary/seattle-wa https://www.salary.com/research/salary/benchmark/public-scho... says "The average Public School Teacher salary in Seattle, WA is $60,126 as of June 28, 2022, but the range typically falls between $50,222 and $73,312", with the 90-percentile at $85K. https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/finance/Budget/current-budget/ https://www.seattleschools.org/departments/finance/Budget/cu... says : > For the 2021-22 school year, a teacher in Seattle Public Schools costs approximately $131,525. This includes base salary, time responsibility incentive (TRI), contract days, tech days, medical, and other benefits. > Specific details include: Average Salary Total: $79,673 / Medical insurance: $12,212 / Other Benefits, and Payroll & Pension Taxes: $39,640 / Total Cost: $131,525 So that's 6 figures if you include all benefits. But military officers also have other benefits besides salary, like VA services for life, housing, and commissary access. As for "best benefits package of any profession", ... really? Better than, say, college president? And all those benefits come from at most $51,852/year on average? We software developers ("The average Software Developer salary is $70,497 as of June 28, 2022, but the salary range typically falls between $62,812 and $78,654." - https://www.salary.com/research/salary/recruiting/software-developer-salary https://www.salary.com/research/salary/recruiting/software-d...) have a higher salary than Seattle-area teachers. Why are our benefits worse, and what can we do to make them better?
- WalterBright 4y ago
  You brought up software developers, and only mentioned salary. Again, talking salary without value of the benefits package is very incomplete and misleading. Software developers don't get pensions for life, for example. > college president? Are there "entry level" positions for college presidents? Of course not. It's not really considered a category of profession.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    Again, what does "up into the 6 figures" mean for both teacher and military officer pay? Because I am unable to find a source for total benefits for software developer. Microsoft, as another Seattle-area company, offers 50% matching contributions to 401(k), stock and cash bonuses, child daycare accounts, life insurance, public transit card, and more. But other companies will differ. Do you have any better numbers? You must have some idea, in order to judge that software developers have worse benefits than Seattle public school teachers. A lot of government employees get pensions like public school teachers do, so what else do teachers have which makes it likely the best benefits package of any profession? What am I missing? Since stock options, 50% matching to 401(k), etc are worse than what teachers get, what do software developers need to do to get a piece of that sweet pension benefit? Negotiate better? Start a union? Get laws passed? Start online discussions about the poor benefits in software development?
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      The teacher union salaries + benefits are not sustainable. They're a gigantic problem for state governments, and there's a huge overhang of unfunded pension benefits that keeps getting kicked down the road.
      - eesmith 4y ago
        While other government employee salaries + benefits are sustainable and funded? What additional benefits do teachers get that make them so special? Nothing stands out when I compare the teacher pension and state patrol pension at https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/ https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/ . Military officer pay is up into the 6 figures. Their pension is "monthly annuity for life after 20 years of service. The annuity is based on a calculation of 2% per year served." (https://www.usa.gov/military-pay https://www.usa.gov/military-pay ) which is what TRS-2 does (https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/trs2/ https://www.drs.wa.gov/plan/trs2/ ) for Washington teachers. Plus veterans get VA access and other benefits. I don't see what makes teachers' benefits so special.