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Most of good teaching is not about well delivered lectures or clearly explained examples. Cookie cutter youtube lectures are just another resource. The evidenc

by hokua 15y ago

Most of good teaching is not about well delivered lectures or clearly explained examples. Cookie cutter youtube lectures are just another resource. The evidence suggests that its individualized instruction in a structured environment with clear expectations that is best -- of course you cannot scale this, but clever videos are no substitute. The Khan Academy's audience tend to be good students-those who would thrive in any number of environments. Im not worried about these students. Its the students who might have been great had they been exposed to a better environment that worry me. For this it takes good teachers and a system that attracts them to the field (which the current system does not).

perokreco 15y ago
Khan Academy actually works really well for underachieving students, and especially well for students with learning disabilities. If you watch any of Sal Khan talks, you will see that one of the biggest emphasis of KA is to prevent students from getting stuck and losing interest in a subject. The whole goal is to increase the meaningful time students have to interact with teachers. Having lectures delivered online and then having students actually talk to a teacher and have things explained to them instead of sitting and listening to a one size fits all lecture works much better.
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- hokua 15y ago
  If KA wants to be a nonprofit and do good, thats great. Charity is a good thing. But dont do it as a startup. What they are doing is not revolutionary, but another resource (albiet valuable). KA does not solve the fundamental problem that smart people dont want to become teachers. In time the hype around KA will fade as the problem in ed persist despite its efforts. The problems in education are structural. Technology cannot revolutionize a government monopoly. The major players have no incentive to change.
  - ig1 15y ago
    Are you familiar with the school trials that they're doing ? - essentially giving the videos as homework and spending the class time with teacher helping the kids with problems they had with understanding. Their performance metrics are also miles ahead of everything else. (fyi they are a non-profit)
    - hokua 15y ago
      selection bias? Is KA randomly selecting these schools for their trials? Or is it a convenience sample? In that case the schools that elect to work with KA are not likely to be typical American schools.
      - nickik 15y ago
        Atm the schools come to KA not the other way around and KA itself does sommerschools. Here you'll find all you need: http://www.khanacademy.org/#khan-academy-related-talks-and-interviews http://www.khanacademy.org/#khan-academy-related-talks-and-i...
      - gujk 15y ago
        They are still a subset of American schools.. if KA wins an A/B test wiher both A and B are at those schools, it is still a win. But the control had better be the same school!
    - hsparikh 15y ago
      Can't find the link at the moment, but this is incorrect. The first results that came out of the initial trial showed no significant improvement in student performance using KA's approach compared to the traditional approach. Edit: here is the link http://blendmylearning.com/2011/08/31/the-results/ http://blendmylearning.com/2011/08/31/the-results/
      - yummyfajitas 15y ago
        This is a very promising result - apparently Khan is roughly as good as a traditional teacher provided a teacher is in the room. Now the important question is to figure out how much of the teacher can be done away with. For example, can 1 teacher + Khan educate 80 students as well as 1 teacher without Khan educate 40? Or can we replace the (well paid) teacher with a lower paid day care worker for at least some of that time? If Khan can reduce the number of teachers required to educate students, that would go a long way towards reducing our out of control spending on education.
choxi 15y ago
i don't know, I think the problems you're pointing out are the ones Kahn particularly wants to address. You should watch his TED talk if you haven't: http://www.ted.com/talks/salman_khan_let_s_use_video_to_reinvent_education.html http://www.ted.com/talks/salman_khan_let_s_use_video_to_rein...
tokenadult 15y ago
The evidence suggests that . . . Citation, please? I'm reading a very good book about evidence for best practice in education, http://www.amazon.com/Visible-Learning-Synthesis-Meta-Analyses-Achievement/dp/0415476186 http://www.amazon.com/Visible-Learning-Synthesis-Meta-Analys... recommended to me by a candidate in the current school board race in my school district, and I'd like to check what the research says with any source you recommend. Do you have any evidence for any of other assertions in your comment? I will look it up if you would kindly provide citations.
kvnn 15y ago
Its strange to me that you state this in reply to a story that mentions the best first-step Khan could take to reaching "students who might have been great had they been exposed to a better environment". Did you simply forget to add "and I'm stoked that Khan is obviously working to fix school for everyone!"? That is what I'm seeing. Be fuckin stoked!
- hokua 15y ago
  Someone has to first motivate the students to use the KA resources. My point is that let's not pretend that KA solves the fundamental problem.
UK-Al05 15y ago
The problem is most lessons are already broadcast only. When you have 30 students in class, it's very hard to take a individual approach. Yes I agree the individual approach is better. But have you considered that videos, when dealing with a class of 30 is actually more individual. A individual student can pause, rewind etc for his own needs. Where as in a class he could not do this. You can't rewind a teacher, if anything the teacher could get angry. If anything this allows more time for tutoring, rather than lecturing. Allowing the teacher more time for one on one work.

by hokua 15y ago

perokreco 15y ago

Khan Academy actually works really well for underachieving students, and especially well for students with learning disabilities. If you watch any of Sal Khan talks, you will see that one of the biggest emphasis of KA is to prevent students from getting stuck and losing interest in a subject. The whole goal is to increase the meaningful time students have to interact with teachers. Having lectures delivered online and then having students actually talk to a teacher and have things explained to them instead of sitting and listening to a one size fits all lecture works much better.

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hokua 15y ago
If KA wants to be a nonprofit and do good, thats great. Charity is a good thing. But dont do it as a startup. What they are doing is not revolutionary, but another resource (albiet valuable). KA does not solve the fundamental problem that smart people dont want to become teachers. In time the hype around KA will fade as the problem in ed persist despite its efforts. The problems in education are structural. Technology cannot revolutionize a government monopoly. The major players have no incentive to change.
- ig1 15y ago
  Are you familiar with the school trials that they're doing ? - essentially giving the videos as homework and spending the class time with teacher helping the kids with problems they had with understanding. Their performance metrics are also miles ahead of everything else. (fyi they are a non-profit)
  - hokua 15y ago
    selection bias? Is KA randomly selecting these schools for their trials? Or is it a convenience sample? In that case the schools that elect to work with KA are not likely to be typical American schools.
    - nickik 15y ago
      Atm the schools come to KA not the other way around and KA itself does sommerschools. Here you'll find all you need: http://www.khanacademy.org/#khan-academy-related-talks-and-interviews http://www.khanacademy.org/#khan-academy-related-talks-and-i...
    - gujk 15y ago
      They are still a subset of American schools.. if KA wins an A/B test wiher both A and B are at those schools, it is still a win. But the control had better be the same school!
  - hsparikh 15y ago
    Can't find the link at the moment, but this is incorrect. The first results that came out of the initial trial showed no significant improvement in student performance using KA's approach compared to the traditional approach. Edit: here is the link http://blendmylearning.com/2011/08/31/the-results/ http://blendmylearning.com/2011/08/31/the-results/
    - yummyfajitas 15y ago
      This is a very promising result - apparently Khan is roughly as good as a traditional teacher provided a teacher is in the room. Now the important question is to figure out how much of the teacher can be done away with. For example, can 1 teacher + Khan educate 80 students as well as 1 teacher without Khan educate 40? Or can we replace the (well paid) teacher with a lower paid day care worker for at least some of that time? If Khan can reduce the number of teachers required to educate students, that would go a long way towards reducing our out of control spending on education.

choxi 15y ago

i don't know, I think the problems you're pointing out are the ones Kahn particularly wants to address. You should watch his TED talk if you haven't: http://www.ted.com/talks/salman_khan_let_s_use_video_to_reinvent_education.html http://www.ted.com/talks/salman_khan_let_s_use_video_to_rein...

tokenadult 15y ago

The evidence suggests that . . . Citation, please? I'm reading a very good book about evidence for best practice in education, http://www.amazon.com/Visible-Learning-Synthesis-Meta-Analyses-Achievement/dp/0415476186 http://www.amazon.com/Visible-Learning-Synthesis-Meta-Analys... recommended to me by a candidate in the current school board race in my school district, and I'd like to check what the research says with any source you recommend. Do you have any evidence for any of other assertions in your comment? I will look it up if you would kindly provide citations.

kvnn 15y ago

Its strange to me that you state this in reply to a story that mentions the best first-step Khan could take to reaching "students who might have been great had they been exposed to a better environment". Did you simply forget to add "and I'm stoked that Khan is obviously working to fix school for everyone!"? That is what I'm seeing. Be fuckin stoked!

hokua 15y ago
Someone has to first motivate the students to use the KA resources. My point is that let's not pretend that KA solves the fundamental problem.

UK-Al05 15y ago

The problem is most lessons are already broadcast only. When you have 30 students in class, it's very hard to take a individual approach. Yes I agree the individual approach is better. But have you considered that videos, when dealing with a class of 30 is actually more individual. A individual student can pause, rewind etc for his own needs. Where as in a class he could not do this. You can't rewind a teacher, if anything the teacher could get angry. If anything this allows more time for tutoring, rather than lecturing. Allowing the teacher more time for one on one work.