10 ms·

> Fails > - Have no kids Adjusting that attitude, or at least never saying that bit out loud, may win you more friends. Other than that, with hindsight, yes,

by Jedd 4y ago

> Fails > - Have no kids Adjusting that attitude, or at least never saying that bit out loud, may win you more friends. Other than that, with hindsight, yes, it can all be painted as a series of bad decisions - however I'm sure at the time every decision that got him to where he is now made perfect sense, and was at least a good decision given the information available to him then. I read Bad Blood, and have tracked stories about the key players, but we don't really know what each player's exit strategy actually was. Hers seems to have been to eventually produce the tech she claimed her company already had. He may have bought into that dream, or planned to cut and run at some point (or both at different times).

Jedd 4y ago
Responding to the responses: a summary, for the historical record. Some people noted the key thing here - Sunny's decisions earned him more wealth (if ephemerally) and fame (ditto) than most of us will ever obtain. The balance of good to poor decisions leans heavily to the poor end of the spectrum to my eyes, but it's unlikely he would have agreed during most of the period. Several people seemed more upset that my response to someone describing a man whose actions may have lead to the deaths of others, certainly amplifying poor health outcomes for many [0] that relied in good faith on the fraudulent & false results coming out of the company, his lack of children was a failure worth noting. Especially in contrast to his ex-partner who, between arrest and trial, had hurried to spawn -- more cynical observers may conclude that fits a well-described sociopathic profile. In any case, comparing highly questionable characters like these two reminds me of the old adage about arguing over the tallest dwarf. Without irony I was told that: o having a spine and saying what you believe is preferable - but given I said what I believe ... o I should adjust my attitude - because telling people to adjust their attitude is wrong. Several people observed that they themselves weren't personally offended -- good for you chaps! -- but sadly extrapolated that to conclude that anyone who disagreed on the no-kids == failure assessment was therefore wrong, via some breathtaking inductive logic. Unsurprisingly, someone who thinks PHP is 'the best' struggled to cogently describe their position, but did allude to being too smart to be offended by any claims of being a failure (I guess php guys develop a thick skin) and then proceeded to react to increasingly bad-faith interpretrations of my initial en passant suggestion. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/elizabeth-holmes-trial-finds-theranos-ex-ceo-guilty-4-counts-ncna1286899 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/elizabeth-holmes-trial...
jamiequint 4y ago
You can have plenty of friends while believing that not having any kids is a fail, 70% of married couples have kids. Also, most reasonable people don't alienate friends over differing beliefs.
- greenthrow 4y ago
  The person saying someone else's reproductive decisions are a failure is the one alienating people.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Godel_unicode 4y ago
  That’s their point, though. Calling not having kids a fail is alienating people who have chosen not to (or can’t) have kids.
  - otterley 4y ago
    It might alienate some atypically sensitive people, but as someone who has no children, I don't feel particularly alienated by it; and I don't think most people who have no kids take particular offense to it either.
    - carrolldunham 4y ago
      Have you thought about people who want to but can't? And the whole range of factors that might be in play as to why not?
      - throwawaylinux 4y ago
        > Have you thought about people who want to but can't? Well that's clearly a failure then, isn't it? By definition.
noncoml 4y ago
>> Fails >> - Have no kids > Adjusting that attitude, or at least never saying that bit out loud, may win you more friends. Having a spine and saying what you believe is what wins you friends. Self-censoring being afraid that someone on the internet will get triggered will NOT win you friends. Edit: For what’s worth I don’t agree with them that having no kids is a fail.
- TrackerFF 4y ago
  Being a "no filter" type in real life works for few, but there's a very fine line before people just see you as an unbearable asshole - if you're the type that needs to be vocal on unsolicited opinions. And in this case, it would be the difference between saying "I wonder why [person] didn't remarry or get kids - but that's really none of my business." and "People that don't get married or have kids are losers." So obviously it also depends on how one frames their questions and opinions.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - anon_d 4y ago
    Billions of people in this world would agree unreservedly with the sentiment in question. Only a very specific class of people would have a negative reaction to this. If you don't want to "hang with that crowd" then there's nothing to worry about here w.r.t filter.
    - saiya-jin 4y ago
      I wouldn't read too much into this - this sentiment is quite frequent here by some more vocal members, and HN is very far from being representative of general population (which is very good in this regard, since mankind would be over in 2-3 generations). I have personally a very different opinion - smart handy balanced successful (in life, pursuit of happiness, usefulness to society) people should have more kids/kids more frequently as they do, of course if they are able to do so physically, emotionally and overall mentally. Why - this world desperately needs more of such people, and instead gets explosion of poor uneducated farmers or basic factory workers. Quiet average (or under-average) majority never changes much, they listen to what they should think, what is right, cool etc. Decision processes based mostly on emotions, which is always flawed long-term (and mass media abuse this to no end). We as mankind are clearly heading to self-destruction if we continue this trajectory long enough (longer than doomsayers preach but not absurdly long). Also majority of childless older folks I've met are in one of these categories: 1) physically impossible, didn't want to go through adoption bureaucratic hell; 2) would be OK with kids but didn't meet the right partner during say age 20-45; 3) didn't want them earlier and when decision changed they realized it was too late (I know quite a few guys in this bracket too). Those that made this decision consciously at early age and stand by it till death without regrets are really small minority. Even those fearing overpopulation are helping shrink it a bit if they have 2 kids max (equilibrium is somewhere around 2.1 IIRC). There are other points but I don't want to end up with article on this topic. Suffice to say, in my view, life is a (short) game that shouldn't be played on easy difficulty (=no kids) to get most out of it. If that makes me some arrogant a-hole for stating that, because I ruffled some underlying feathers of somebody online is of no concern to me. Being people-pleaser is a shitty life from all possible angles.
cloutchaser 4y ago
I think if you surveyed a decent amount if people who are 70+ years old with no children, you'd find out if this is a fail or not... I think you can predict the answer.
realcertify 4y ago
Adjusting your attitude to stop telling people to adjust their attitude might actually result in a much healthier atmosphere, not the woke madness we see now.
paganel 4y ago
> however I'm sure at the time every decision that got him to where he is now made perfect sense, Let's not forget that at a certain moment of time Theranos was valued at $9 billion (according to my web searches), and that was just before almost anyone and his brother was at the helm of a unicorn. At that exact moment I'm pretty sure he had felt he had taken almost all the correct decisions.
aliswe 4y ago
This reply is deeply offending to me. Just kidding, but wouldnt it be a hilarious plot twist if I were?

by Jedd 4y ago

Jedd 4y ago

Responding to the responses: a summary, for the historical record. Some people noted the key thing here - Sunny's decisions earned him more wealth (if ephemerally) and fame (ditto) than most of us will ever obtain. The balance of good to poor decisions leans heavily to the poor end of the spectrum to my eyes, but it's unlikely he would have agreed during most of the period. Several people seemed more upset that my response to someone describing a man whose actions may have lead to the deaths of others, certainly amplifying poor health outcomes for many [0] that relied in good faith on the fraudulent & false results coming out of the company, his lack of children was a failure worth noting. Especially in contrast to his ex-partner who, between arrest and trial, had hurried to spawn -- more cynical observers may conclude that fits a well-described sociopathic profile. In any case, comparing highly questionable characters like these two reminds me of the old adage about arguing over the tallest dwarf. Without irony I was told that: o having a spine and saying what you believe is preferable - but given I said what I believe ... o I should adjust my attitude - because telling people to adjust their attitude is wrong. Several people observed that they themselves weren't personally offended -- good for you chaps! -- but sadly extrapolated that to conclude that anyone who disagreed on the no-kids == failure assessment was therefore wrong, via some breathtaking inductive logic. Unsurprisingly, someone who thinks PHP is 'the best' struggled to cogently describe their position, but did allude to being too smart to be offended by any claims of being a failure (I guess php guys develop a thick skin) and then proceeded to react to increasingly bad-faith interpretrations of my initial en passant suggestion. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/elizabeth-holmes-trial-finds-theranos-ex-ceo-guilty-4-counts-ncna1286899 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/elizabeth-holmes-trial...

jamiequint 4y ago

You can have plenty of friends while believing that not having any kids is a fail, 70% of married couples have kids. Also, most reasonable people don't alienate friends over differing beliefs.

greenthrow 4y ago
The person saying someone else's reproductive decisions are a failure is the one alienating people.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Godel_unicode 4y ago
That’s their point, though. Calling not having kids a fail is alienating people who have chosen not to (or can’t) have kids.
- otterley 4y ago
  It might alienate some atypically sensitive people, but as someone who has no children, I don't feel particularly alienated by it; and I don't think most people who have no kids take particular offense to it either.
  - carrolldunham 4y ago
    Have you thought about people who want to but can't? And the whole range of factors that might be in play as to why not?
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      > Have you thought about people who want to but can't? Well that's clearly a failure then, isn't it? By definition.

noncoml 4y ago

>> Fails >> - Have no kids > Adjusting that attitude, or at least never saying that bit out loud, may win you more friends. Having a spine and saying what you believe is what wins you friends. Self-censoring being afraid that someone on the internet will get triggered will NOT win you friends. Edit: For what’s worth I don’t agree with them that having no kids is a fail.

TrackerFF 4y ago
Being a "no filter" type in real life works for few, but there's a very fine line before people just see you as an unbearable asshole - if you're the type that needs to be vocal on unsolicited opinions. And in this case, it would be the difference between saying "I wonder why [person] didn't remarry or get kids - but that's really none of my business." and "People that don't get married or have kids are losers." So obviously it also depends on how one frames their questions and opinions.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- anon_d 4y ago
  Billions of people in this world would agree unreservedly with the sentiment in question. Only a very specific class of people would have a negative reaction to this. If you don't want to "hang with that crowd" then there's nothing to worry about here w.r.t filter.
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    I wouldn't read too much into this - this sentiment is quite frequent here by some more vocal members, and HN is very far from being representative of general population (which is very good in this regard, since mankind would be over in 2-3 generations). I have personally a very different opinion - smart handy balanced successful (in life, pursuit of happiness, usefulness to society) people should have more kids/kids more frequently as they do, of course if they are able to do so physically, emotionally and overall mentally. Why - this world desperately needs more of such people, and instead gets explosion of poor uneducated farmers or basic factory workers. Quiet average (or under-average) majority never changes much, they listen to what they should think, what is right, cool etc. Decision processes based mostly on emotions, which is always flawed long-term (and mass media abuse this to no end). We as mankind are clearly heading to self-destruction if we continue this trajectory long enough (longer than doomsayers preach but not absurdly long). Also majority of childless older folks I've met are in one of these categories: 1) physically impossible, didn't want to go through adoption bureaucratic hell; 2) would be OK with kids but didn't meet the right partner during say age 20-45; 3) didn't want them earlier and when decision changed they realized it was too late (I know quite a few guys in this bracket too). Those that made this decision consciously at early age and stand by it till death without regrets are really small minority. Even those fearing overpopulation are helping shrink it a bit if they have 2 kids max (equilibrium is somewhere around 2.1 IIRC). There are other points but I don't want to end up with article on this topic. Suffice to say, in my view, life is a (short) game that shouldn't be played on easy difficulty (=no kids) to get most out of it. If that makes me some arrogant a-hole for stating that, because I ruffled some underlying feathers of somebody online is of no concern to me. Being people-pleaser is a shitty life from all possible angles.

cloutchaser 4y ago

I think if you surveyed a decent amount if people who are 70+ years old with no children, you'd find out if this is a fail or not... I think you can predict the answer.

realcertify 4y ago

Adjusting your attitude to stop telling people to adjust their attitude might actually result in a much healthier atmosphere, not the woke madness we see now.

paganel 4y ago

> however I'm sure at the time every decision that got him to where he is now made perfect sense, Let's not forget that at a certain moment of time Theranos was valued at $9 billion (according to my web searches), and that was just before almost anyone and his brother was at the helm of a unicorn. At that exact moment I'm pretty sure he had felt he had taken almost all the correct decisions.

aliswe 4y ago

This reply is deeply offending to me. Just kidding, but wouldnt it be a hilarious plot twist if I were?