3 ms·

Ok let's diligence this: There are about 60m trucks on the road in the US [0] There are 6m construction/mining workers, 6m installation workers, and 4m buildi

by RC_ITR 4y ago

Ok let's diligence this: There are about 60m trucks on the road in the US [0] There are 6m construction/mining workers, 6m installation workers, and 4m building maintenance workers. [1] Using that definition, at most, 25% of trucks are used for work. If you want to be extremely generous, there are also 13m transportation drivers (being very generous because that 60m does not include big rigs) and 8m factory workers (again, unlikely to use trucks for work). Using that frankly incorrect definition, you still get only 62% of trucks being used for work. So no, under NO circumstances are the "vast majority" of trucks in the US used for work. [0]https://www.bts.gov/content/number-us-aircraft-vehicles-vessels-and-other-conveyances https://www.bts.gov/content/number-us-aircraft-vehicles-vess... [1] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm

chrisseaton 4y ago
> There are 6m construction/mining workers, 6m installation workers, and 4m building maintenance workers. What’s this random collection of jobs and why do you think they’re the only people who use a truck for work? Have you ever met for example a farmer? Crazy concept for people in tech, I know.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  So you must not be familiar with NAICS codes. They are a mutually exclusive completely exhaustive categorization of jobs, as defined by the US government. Here's the other ones: 11-0000 Management Occupations 13-0000 Business and Financial Operations Occupations 15-0000 Computer and Mathematical Occupations 17-0000 Architecture and Engineering Occupations 19-0000 Life, Physical, and Social Science Occupations 21-0000 Community and Social Service Occupations 23-0000 Legal Occupations 25-0000 Educational Instruction and Library Occupations 27-0000 Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media Occupations 29-0000 Healthcare Practitioners and Technical Occupations 31-0000 Healthcare Support Occupations 33-0000 Protective Service Occupations 35-0000 Food Preparation and Serving Related Occupations 37-0000 Building and Grounds Cleaning and Maintenance Occupations 39-0000 Personal Care and Service Occupations 41-0000 Sales and Related Occupations 43-0000 Office and Administrative Support Occupations 45-0000 Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Occupations 47-0000 Construction and Extraction Occupations 49-0000 Installation, Maintenance, and Repair Occupations 51-0000 Production Occupations 53-0000 Transportation and Material Moving Occupations Sure, maybe the 500k farming, fishing, and Forestry workers should be added to the list, but I'm curious as to what else you think should be. EDIT: HN is banning me so this doesn't turn into a flamewar, but I'll leave you with this: I am trying not to personally attack you, but I think you're kind of dipping into ad hominen attacks because you regret making statement that is not supported by data. If you want to know why I think they shouldn't be included (and why I think you're really over your skis here), it's because the reality of farm work in the US is as follows: 1) The majority of the <1m US farm workers do the following job [0] [1]: Manually plant, cultivate, and harvest vegetables, fruits, nuts, horticultural specialties, and field crops. Use hand tools, such as shovels, trowels, hoes, tampers, pruning hooks, shears, and knives. It is not clear to me that this requires a truck (especially not one for each worker). 2) The average wage of farmworkers is $15/hour [1] and the average cost of a used F-150 in the US is $40k ($30k pre-pandemic) [2], so it's not immediately clear to me that this group of people own a large number of pick-ups. Ultimately though, for someone to work at a large tech company, make their identity publicly available and to be so aggressive on a forum like this seems like a weird risk to take. If you want to delete all of this stuff and just move on, I'm ok with that. [0]https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes452092.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes452092.htm [1]https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-labor/#wages https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-labor/#wag... [2] https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2021/07/used-pickup-truck-prices-are-insane-up-27-or-more/ https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2021/07/used-pickup-truck-prices...
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    The fact that you don't even think of 'farmers' when you think of truck user makes it clear you've got a warped suburban idea of what people use trucks for.
    - zeraynor 4y ago
      Given the vast majority of the population reside in urban/suburban areas perhaps you have a warped rural idea of what people use trucks for.
    - corrral 4y ago
      Farmers are a rounding error in the claim "the vast majority of trucks are used for work". [EDIT] I think, assuming you're posting all this in good faith, it may be a result of expanding a local perspective to the entire country. Some parts of the country definitely do have way fewer non-work trucks driving around, as a proportion of total cars. One might conclude that this is the norm over enough of the country that "the vast majority" of trucks are work trucks. It very much is not.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Johnny555 4y ago
  But how many of those contruction/mining workers need to drive a truck? My brother works in road construction - he drives a 15,000 lb maintenance truck owned by his company. But he doesn't drive it home, it stays on the job site (which varies between 15 and 150 miles from home). He owns a truck, but like many suburban trucks, it's in pristine condition and he mostly only uses it to pull a trailer, he drives a Honda Civic to get to the job site.

by RC_ITR 4y ago

chrisseaton 4y ago

> There are 6m construction/mining workers, 6m installation workers, and 4m building maintenance workers. What’s this random collection of jobs and why do you think they’re the only people who use a truck for work? Have you ever met for example a farmer? Crazy concept for people in tech, I know.

RC_ITR 4y ago
So you must not be familiar with NAICS codes. They are a mutually exclusive completely exhaustive categorization of jobs, as defined by the US government. Here's the other ones: 11-0000 Management Occupations 13-0000 Business and Financial Operations Occupations 15-0000 Computer and Mathematical Occupations 17-0000 Architecture and Engineering Occupations 19-0000 Life, Physical, and Social Science Occupations 21-0000 Community and Social Service Occupations 23-0000 Legal Occupations 25-0000 Educational Instruction and Library Occupations 27-0000 Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media Occupations 29-0000 Healthcare Practitioners and Technical Occupations 31-0000 Healthcare Support Occupations 33-0000 Protective Service Occupations 35-0000 Food Preparation and Serving Related Occupations 37-0000 Building and Grounds Cleaning and Maintenance Occupations 39-0000 Personal Care and Service Occupations 41-0000 Sales and Related Occupations 43-0000 Office and Administrative Support Occupations 45-0000 Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Occupations 47-0000 Construction and Extraction Occupations 49-0000 Installation, Maintenance, and Repair Occupations 51-0000 Production Occupations 53-0000 Transportation and Material Moving Occupations Sure, maybe the 500k farming, fishing, and Forestry workers should be added to the list, but I'm curious as to what else you think should be. EDIT: HN is banning me so this doesn't turn into a flamewar, but I'll leave you with this: I am trying not to personally attack you, but I think you're kind of dipping into ad hominen attacks because you regret making statement that is not supported by data. If you want to know why I think they shouldn't be included (and why I think you're really over your skis here), it's because the reality of farm work in the US is as follows: 1) The majority of the <1m US farm workers do the following job [0] [1]: Manually plant, cultivate, and harvest vegetables, fruits, nuts, horticultural specialties, and field crops. Use hand tools, such as shovels, trowels, hoes, tampers, pruning hooks, shears, and knives. It is not clear to me that this requires a truck (especially not one for each worker). 2) The average wage of farmworkers is $15/hour [1] and the average cost of a used F-150 in the US is $40k ($30k pre-pandemic) [2], so it's not immediately clear to me that this group of people own a large number of pick-ups. Ultimately though, for someone to work at a large tech company, make their identity publicly available and to be so aggressive on a forum like this seems like a weird risk to take. If you want to delete all of this stuff and just move on, I'm ok with that. [0]https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes452092.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes452092.htm [1]https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-labor/#wages https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-labor/#wag... [2] https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2021/07/used-pickup-truck-prices-are-insane-up-27-or-more/ https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2021/07/used-pickup-truck-prices...
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  The fact that you don't even think of 'farmers' when you think of truck user makes it clear you've got a warped suburban idea of what people use trucks for.
  - zeraynor 4y ago
    Given the vast majority of the population reside in urban/suburban areas perhaps you have a warped rural idea of what people use trucks for.
  - corrral 4y ago
    Farmers are a rounding error in the claim "the vast majority of trucks are used for work". [EDIT] I think, assuming you're posting all this in good faith, it may be a result of expanding a local perspective to the entire country. Some parts of the country definitely do have way fewer non-work trucks driving around, as a proportion of total cars. One might conclude that this is the norm over enough of the country that "the vast majority" of trucks are work trucks. It very much is not.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Johnny555 4y ago
But how many of those contruction/mining workers need to drive a truck? My brother works in road construction - he drives a 15,000 lb maintenance truck owned by his company. But he doesn't drive it home, it stays on the job site (which varies between 15 and 150 miles from home). He owns a truck, but like many suburban trucks, it's in pristine condition and he mostly only uses it to pull a trailer, he drives a Honda Civic to get to the job site.