4 ms·

“Horrified” “monstrous” “inhumane” The language the left uses to describe anything they disagree with is shrill and argumentative. Very tired of it. Also crim

“Horrified” “monstrous” “inhumane” The language the left uses to describe anything they disagree with is shrill and argumentative. Very tired of it. Also crime prediction software isn’t making any alarm bells go off for me, especially if it is effective at reducing the murders and gun violence that happens all the time in my city.

dataflow 4y ago
> Also crime prediction software isn’t making any alarm bells go off for me Do you see any similarities with redlining? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
- seibelj 4y ago
  Considering the criticism here is that it's racist, isn't it odd that black Americans want increased police presence in their communities when compared to whites? > The share of Black adults who say police spending in their area should be decreased has fallen 19 percentage points since last year (from 42% to 23%), including a 13-point decline in the share who say funding should be decreased a lot (from 22% to 9%). The share of White and Hispanic adults who say funding for local police should be decreased also declined over this period, but not as much. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-share-of-americans-say-they-want-more-spending-on-police-in-their-area/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-sha...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    What exactly does this have to do with crime prediction software? Or do you just assume that the vauge concept of increased police presence expands to crime prediction software in their minds?
  - dataflow 4y ago
    You avoided my question. Moreover I don't believe they're asking for software to make this decision for them. Rather, I would think they want to be able to decide how much police presence they get. Just because I'm fine with X outcome in the present, that doesn't imply I am fine with arbitrary software that happens to lead to X outcome in the present.
    - seibelj 4y ago
      If some algorithm says crime is more likely to happen in neighborhoods ABC and XYZ, and therefore put more police there, doesn't seem like a problem. I would prefer more police everywhere given the crime rates. But I'm someone who likes to be safe, YMMV
      - dataflow 4y ago
        > If some algorithm says crime is more likely to happen in neighborhoods ABC and XYZ, and therefore put more police there, doesn't seem like a problem. Again, I must ask: do you see any similarities to redlining?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
devmor 4y ago
"The left" is far from the only section of society that criticizes this issue. It's been pretty universally panned by all corners of society - save for those on the far, far right obsessed with an imaginative idea of social purity that can somehow be enforced by a hard line drawn in the sand.
- seibelj 4y ago
  Ah yes - anyone who disagrees with you is "far, far right". Mm hmm
  - devmor 4y ago
    It has nothing to do with anyone's disagreement with anyone and everything to do with the fact that predictive criminology was the core "science" behind the entire Nazi movement. If you want to defend the core of Nazi beliefs for use as a modern technology, you should expect some societal pushback don't you think?
    - seibelj 4y ago
      Straight to calling people nazis! This must be parody https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
      - ziddoap 4y ago
        My god, they didn't call you, or anyone, a Nazi. They stated a fact regarding Nazi's relationship to predictive policing. The fact that you read that and somehow viewed it as being called a Nazi is something that might deserve some self-reflection.
      - yamanawabi 4y ago
        Things got so bad in 1930s Germany that Hitler justified the killing of lawbreakers, Jews, Gypsies and other groups with an idea that they had a criminal biology. They believed that their hereditary factors could predict criminology. Of course there was no truth to that, but Nazi germany ate it up anyway. Kinda sounds familiar, huh.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dataflow 4y ago

> Also crime prediction software isn’t making any alarm bells go off for me Do you see any similarities with redlining? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

seibelj 4y ago
Considering the criticism here is that it's racist, isn't it odd that black Americans want increased police presence in their communities when compared to whites? > The share of Black adults who say police spending in their area should be decreased has fallen 19 percentage points since last year (from 42% to 23%), including a 13-point decline in the share who say funding should be decreased a lot (from 22% to 9%). The share of White and Hispanic adults who say funding for local police should be decreased also declined over this period, but not as much. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-share-of-americans-say-they-want-more-spending-on-police-in-their-area/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/26/growing-sha...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- the_only_law 4y ago
  What exactly does this have to do with crime prediction software? Or do you just assume that the vauge concept of increased police presence expands to crime prediction software in their minds?
- dataflow 4y ago
  You avoided my question. Moreover I don't believe they're asking for software to make this decision for them. Rather, I would think they want to be able to decide how much police presence they get. Just because I'm fine with X outcome in the present, that doesn't imply I am fine with arbitrary software that happens to lead to X outcome in the present.
  - seibelj 4y ago
    If some algorithm says crime is more likely to happen in neighborhoods ABC and XYZ, and therefore put more police there, doesn't seem like a problem. I would prefer more police everywhere given the crime rates. But I'm someone who likes to be safe, YMMV
    - dataflow 4y ago
      > If some algorithm says crime is more likely to happen in neighborhoods ABC and XYZ, and therefore put more police there, doesn't seem like a problem. Again, I must ask: do you see any similarities to redlining?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]

devmor 4y ago

"The left" is far from the only section of society that criticizes this issue. It's been pretty universally panned by all corners of society - save for those on the far, far right obsessed with an imaginative idea of social purity that can somehow be enforced by a hard line drawn in the sand.

seibelj 4y ago
Ah yes - anyone who disagrees with you is "far, far right". Mm hmm
- devmor 4y ago
  It has nothing to do with anyone's disagreement with anyone and everything to do with the fact that predictive criminology was the core "science" behind the entire Nazi movement. If you want to defend the core of Nazi beliefs for use as a modern technology, you should expect some societal pushback don't you think?
  - seibelj 4y ago
    Straight to calling people nazis! This must be parody https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
    - ziddoap 4y ago
      My god, they didn't call you, or anyone, a Nazi. They stated a fact regarding Nazi's relationship to predictive policing. The fact that you read that and somehow viewed it as being called a Nazi is something that might deserve some self-reflection.
    - yamanawabi 4y ago
      Things got so bad in 1930s Germany that Hitler justified the killing of lawbreakers, Jews, Gypsies and other groups with an idea that they had a criminal biology. They believed that their hereditary factors could predict criminology. Of course there was no truth to that, but Nazi germany ate it up anyway. Kinda sounds familiar, huh.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]