4 ms·

> It sounds like you are agreeing with me that the school did NOT teach that "if you feel uncomfortable in your body, it means you are transgender." I'm saying

> It sounds like you are agreeing with me that the school did NOT teach that "if you feel uncomfortable in your body, it means you are transgender." I'm saying we simply don't know. It's not hard for me to believe that someone somewhere taught that. It's also not hard for me to believe that a child took away that as the message, even though it isn't what was intended by the teacher, and that the parent took their child's description of the lesson at face value. It's also not hard for me to believe that the parent made that part up. All of those are reasonably possible scenarios, but I see no reason to just assume the worst from the parent. > If this was her first sex ed class, and it was about being transgender, then it something is seriously wrong in the pedagogy. I agree, but we have no reason to necessarily believe that was the case. As a boy, I didn't pay much attention to sex ed until it actually became relevant to me. At the time, transgenderism was still considered a disorder so it wasn't something I was even prompted to consider. It's impossible to say how I or my peers would have responded if that weren't the case. Assuming that was the case and the child had no exposure to sex ed whatsoever prior to the talk on transgenderism, I can still sympathize with the parent's position. They made a mistake and circumstances have made that mistake difficult to correct. And now they feel like they're in a tug-of-war with the school over the fate of their child.

eesmith 4y ago
If I assume the best, and the author's account really did happen that way, then the school (and the parent) have done a poor job of sex ed. > I didn't pay much attention to sex ed until it actually became relevant to me It was several weeks after the daughter's first period. Probably pretty relevant. And the signs of puberty start showing up before then. But note that this wasn't a sex ed class, it was "a module on ‘identity’". Even if we limit ourselves to sexual identity, that topic includes heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, transexual, and asexual. Even P.E./gym should have covered something on how exercise and phyiscal fitness can affect how comfortable you feel in in your body. > and the child had no exposure to sex ed whatsoever prior to the talk on transgenderism For the author's theory to be true means at least 6 other parents also did not talk to their children about sex ed -- and that's assuming every single one of those children concluded they were trans, which seems far outside the odds. If I assume the best, then this sounds like such an outlier that there's no take-home lesson to learn.
- CivBase 4y ago
  > It was several weeks after the daughter's first period. Probably pretty relevant. And the signs of puberty start showing up before then. It certainly would be relevant, were they actively discussing puberty at the time. > Even P.E./gym should have covered something on how exercise and phyiscal fitness can affect how comfortable you feel in in your body. I doubt that. PE in most public elementary schools are focused on helping kids develop physical skills. They might learn the rules of a sport or the steps to a dance, but there isn't much else academic going on beyond "exercise is part of being healthy". > For the author's theory to be true means at least 6 other parents also did not talk to their children about sex ed -- and that's assuming every single one of those children concluded they were trans, which seems far outside the odds. This honestly doesn't seem that unlikely to me. The author stressed how they chose to send their child to this school specifically because of how progressive they are. If the schools progressiveness is that exceptional, it wouldn't be a surprise if other parents did the same. Already, we could expect open trans identity to be higher there because of their exceptional promotion of acceptance. And depending on how the lesson in question actually went, it isn't far fetched that other kids may have come away with the same message. I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss anecdotes like this just because extremist might paint it as a ridiculous plot by schools to turn kids trans or whatever. Trans identity - and especially medical treatment - among children is a complex, delicate subject that our society doesn't have a lot of experience with yet. Scenarios like this, even if it's made up, can teach us a lot. To surmise what we've learned so far: Parents should teach their kids about puberty and sexual identities long before puberty starts. While teaching, parents should make sure their kids learn how to distinguish between transgenderism and puberty. I never would have considered those lessons before this discussion.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    > If the schools progressiveness is that exceptional, it wouldn't be a surprise if other parents did the same. Then there's another possibility - how many parents sent their kids to this school specifically because their kids already at age 5 were questioning their assigned gender-normative identity, and the parents wanted the kids to be in a safe place to explore that identity? We don't have a clue, because all of these details are missing from the essay except for the conclusion. > Scenarios like this, even if it's made up, can teach us a lot. I would rather spend my time understanding real case histories rather than made up ones. Even according to this essay, there's no need to teach kids "how to distinguish between transgenderism and puberty", only to teach kids that puberty makes some people feel uncomfortable with their body as certain parts are growing and changing shape. Which is already what competent sex education does. That knowledge would have been enough that if a kid hears someone say "if you feel uncomfortable in your body, it means you are transgender" then they can see the conflicting statements. And, honestly, do you think kids would hear a statement like that and believe it? Repeated lessons on "Don't do drugs" and "Don't have sex outside of marriage" didn't work, yet this one somehow does?

eesmith 4y ago

If I assume the best, and the author's account really did happen that way, then the school (and the parent) have done a poor job of sex ed. > I didn't pay much attention to sex ed until it actually became relevant to me It was several weeks after the daughter's first period. Probably pretty relevant. And the signs of puberty start showing up before then. But note that this wasn't a sex ed class, it was "a module on ‘identity’". Even if we limit ourselves to sexual identity, that topic includes heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, transexual, and asexual. Even P.E./gym should have covered something on how exercise and phyiscal fitness can affect how comfortable you feel in in your body. > and the child had no exposure to sex ed whatsoever prior to the talk on transgenderism For the author's theory to be true means at least 6 other parents also did not talk to their children about sex ed -- and that's assuming every single one of those children concluded they were trans, which seems far outside the odds. If I assume the best, then this sounds like such an outlier that there's no take-home lesson to learn.

CivBase 4y ago
> It was several weeks after the daughter's first period. Probably pretty relevant. And the signs of puberty start showing up before then. It certainly would be relevant, were they actively discussing puberty at the time. > Even P.E./gym should have covered something on how exercise and phyiscal fitness can affect how comfortable you feel in in your body. I doubt that. PE in most public elementary schools are focused on helping kids develop physical skills. They might learn the rules of a sport or the steps to a dance, but there isn't much else academic going on beyond "exercise is part of being healthy". > For the author's theory to be true means at least 6 other parents also did not talk to their children about sex ed -- and that's assuming every single one of those children concluded they were trans, which seems far outside the odds. This honestly doesn't seem that unlikely to me. The author stressed how they chose to send their child to this school specifically because of how progressive they are. If the schools progressiveness is that exceptional, it wouldn't be a surprise if other parents did the same. Already, we could expect open trans identity to be higher there because of their exceptional promotion of acceptance. And depending on how the lesson in question actually went, it isn't far fetched that other kids may have come away with the same message. I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss anecdotes like this just because extremist might paint it as a ridiculous plot by schools to turn kids trans or whatever. Trans identity - and especially medical treatment - among children is a complex, delicate subject that our society doesn't have a lot of experience with yet. Scenarios like this, even if it's made up, can teach us a lot. To surmise what we've learned so far: Parents should teach their kids about puberty and sexual identities long before puberty starts. While teaching, parents should make sure their kids learn how to distinguish between transgenderism and puberty. I never would have considered those lessons before this discussion.
- eesmith 4y ago
  > If the schools progressiveness is that exceptional, it wouldn't be a surprise if other parents did the same. Then there's another possibility - how many parents sent their kids to this school specifically because their kids already at age 5 were questioning their assigned gender-normative identity, and the parents wanted the kids to be in a safe place to explore that identity? We don't have a clue, because all of these details are missing from the essay except for the conclusion. > Scenarios like this, even if it's made up, can teach us a lot. I would rather spend my time understanding real case histories rather than made up ones. Even according to this essay, there's no need to teach kids "how to distinguish between transgenderism and puberty", only to teach kids that puberty makes some people feel uncomfortable with their body as certain parts are growing and changing shape. Which is already what competent sex education does. That knowledge would have been enough that if a kid hears someone say "if you feel uncomfortable in your body, it means you are transgender" then they can see the conflicting statements. And, honestly, do you think kids would hear a statement like that and believe it? Repeated lessons on "Don't do drugs" and "Don't have sex outside of marriage" didn't work, yet this one somehow does?