4 ms·

Remember these vaccines are more intended to reduce the severity of the virus.

miles 4y ago
> Remember these vaccines are more intended to reduce the severity of the virus. People could be forgiven for thinking otherwise: https://tinyapps.org/blog/202201040700_gaslighting.html https://tinyapps.org/blog/202201040700_gaslighting.html
sudden_dystopia 4y ago
Was that really the intention? Pretty sure they intended for something better and just settled on this because it was the only feather left in the cap.
- cm2187 4y ago
  Well the original trials only tested if there were symptoms, they never even measured the ability to stop transmissions. So it never really said on the tin that it did. It the bullshit echochamber of journalists and politicians that ended up defining the vaccine “working” as stopping transmissions, rather than serious cases. But that was not a claim from the manufacturers of the vaccines.
  - miles 4y ago
    > It the bullshit echochamber of journalists and politicians that ended up defining the vaccine “working” as stopping transmissions, rather than serious cases. But that was not a claim from the manufacturers of the vaccines. Pfizer stated[0] on Jan 26, 2021 that their vaccine "has been authorized for emergency use to prevent COVID-19 in individuals 16+." [emphasis added] [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210126223727/https://twitter.com/pfizer/status/1354196725716672519 https://web.archive.org/web/20210126223727/https://twitter.c...
    - cm2187 4y ago
      I am the wrong person for this debate but I think we laymen refer to the virus as covid but in medical terms covid is the disease/symptoms caused by the virus, not the virus itself. So that statement may still be compatible with the vaccine stopping getting sick from it, not transmissions.
      - uwagar 4y ago
        wtf
        superkuh 4y ago
        cm2187 is correct. It was, and is, incredibly frustrating to see the news media and laymen talking about sars-cov-2 by saying covid or covid-19. That's always been the disease that sars-cov-2 causes. You can be infected with sars-cov-2 without having covid-19. In fact, based on China's latest massive population wide PCR testing about 90% of people infected with sars-cov-2 are asymptomatic and will spread it without ever having covid-19. I'm sorry the science communication during the pandemic has been so terrible but there's really nothing suspicious or disengenous going on here.
        miles 4y ago
        Here is someone who should certainly know what they're talking about: CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, March 29, 2021: "[O]ur data from the CDC today suggests, um, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials but it's also in real world data." Video: https://tinyapps.org/screenshots/20220104-walensky.mp4 https://tinyapps.org/screenshots/20220104-walensky.mp4
        superkuh 4y ago
        Which papers did the CDC rep cite in her speech?
- superkuh 4y ago
  Scientists have known about immune compartmentalization and the how to evoke the different types of antibodies since the 1960s (and T-cell residence in 1980s). It just hasn't made it into public messaging about vaccines for aerosol spread viruses until recently because it wasn't a world stage issue. There's no doubt intramuscular vaccination still does help against infection in other immune compartments. It's just not the best at it. This has been shown in large scale studies re: sars-cov-2 from Israel in terms of likelyhood of being infected if someone in your residence gets infected. ref: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl4292 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl4292 "Vaccination with BNT162b2 reduces transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to household contacts in Israel"

> Remember these vaccines are more intended to reduce the severity of the virus. People could be forgiven for thinking otherwise: https://tinyapps.org/blog/202201040700_gaslighting.html https://tinyapps.org/blog/202201040700_gaslighting.html

sudden_dystopia 4y ago

Was that really the intention? Pretty sure they intended for something better and just settled on this because it was the only feather left in the cap.

cm2187 4y ago
Well the original trials only tested if there were symptoms, they never even measured the ability to stop transmissions. So it never really said on the tin that it did. It the bullshit echochamber of journalists and politicians that ended up defining the vaccine “working” as stopping transmissions, rather than serious cases. But that was not a claim from the manufacturers of the vaccines.
- miles 4y ago
  > It the bullshit echochamber of journalists and politicians that ended up defining the vaccine “working” as stopping transmissions, rather than serious cases. But that was not a claim from the manufacturers of the vaccines. Pfizer stated[0] on Jan 26, 2021 that their vaccine "has been authorized for emergency use to prevent COVID-19 in individuals 16+." [emphasis added] [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210126223727/https://twitter.com/pfizer/status/1354196725716672519 https://web.archive.org/web/20210126223727/https://twitter.c...
  - cm2187 4y ago
    I am the wrong person for this debate but I think we laymen refer to the virus as covid but in medical terms covid is the disease/symptoms caused by the virus, not the virus itself. So that statement may still be compatible with the vaccine stopping getting sick from it, not transmissions.
    - uwagar 4y ago
      wtf
      - superkuh 4y ago
        cm2187 is correct. It was, and is, incredibly frustrating to see the news media and laymen talking about sars-cov-2 by saying covid or covid-19. That's always been the disease that sars-cov-2 causes. You can be infected with sars-cov-2 without having covid-19. In fact, based on China's latest massive population wide PCR testing about 90% of people infected with sars-cov-2 are asymptomatic and will spread it without ever having covid-19. I'm sorry the science communication during the pandemic has been so terrible but there's really nothing suspicious or disengenous going on here.
        miles 4y ago
        Here is someone who should certainly know what they're talking about: CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, March 29, 2021: "[O]ur data from the CDC today suggests, um, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick, and that it's not just in the clinical trials but it's also in real world data." Video: https://tinyapps.org/screenshots/20220104-walensky.mp4 https://tinyapps.org/screenshots/20220104-walensky.mp4
        superkuh 4y ago
        Which papers did the CDC rep cite in her speech?
superkuh 4y ago
Scientists have known about immune compartmentalization and the how to evoke the different types of antibodies since the 1960s (and T-cell residence in 1980s). It just hasn't made it into public messaging about vaccines for aerosol spread viruses until recently because it wasn't a world stage issue. There's no doubt intramuscular vaccination still does help against infection in other immune compartments. It's just not the best at it. This has been shown in large scale studies re: sars-cov-2 from Israel in terms of likelyhood of being infected if someone in your residence gets infected. ref: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl4292 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl4292 "Vaccination with BNT162b2 reduces transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to household contacts in Israel"