2 ms·

According to that reading of the constitution, nothing outside of someone's legally owned property is private, so mass surveillance of all of your communication

According to that reading of the constitution, nothing outside of someone's legally owned property is private, so mass surveillance of all of your communications, and a full central and secret police dossier on everything about you, are fully constitutional. Just saying.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago
I'm pretty sure your papers and effects would cover any communications you might have taken part in.
- krapp 4y ago
  Well no, if we're being strict textual originalists about it, "papers and effects" can't cover any form of electronic communication, since that didn't exist at the time. The words "internet," "email," "cellphone" and such do not appear anywhere in the Constitution. And as we've now established, only the words that actually appear in the Constitution matter.
  - bryanrasmussen 4y ago
    all the definitions I am familiar with for papers refers to 'documents'. It seems indeed that personal papers are synonymous with personal documents, thus they are an abstraction or class of thing as opposed an object made from paper. emails are a form of document. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/personal-papers https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/personal-papers three definitions 1. Personal Papers means identification documents issued by your country, state or province including but not limited to your driver’s license and passport. 2. Personal Papers means a natural accumulation of documents created or accumulated by an individual or family belonging to him or her and subject to his or her disposition. 3. Personal Papers means nonofficial documents maintained by an individual at a place of work or on an enterprise network or equipment. Although I certainly don't doubt this court would choose definition 1 if it so suited them, or the definition you are arguing here, I still would not believe the argument was one made in good faith.
    - quantified 4y ago
      Are your telephone conversations "documents"? Your Facetime chats? An email is not under your control, it sits on a server of a private organization. While statutes of the government may currently protect it, are these statutes supported by SCOTUS interpretation of the constitution? Certainly anything you say or do in public can be recorded by as many microphones and cameras as the government may choose.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago

I'm pretty sure your papers and effects would cover any communications you might have taken part in.

krapp 4y ago
Well no, if we're being strict textual originalists about it, "papers and effects" can't cover any form of electronic communication, since that didn't exist at the time. The words "internet," "email," "cellphone" and such do not appear anywhere in the Constitution. And as we've now established, only the words that actually appear in the Constitution matter.
- bryanrasmussen 4y ago
  all the definitions I am familiar with for papers refers to 'documents'. It seems indeed that personal papers are synonymous with personal documents, thus they are an abstraction or class of thing as opposed an object made from paper. emails are a form of document. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/personal-papers https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/personal-papers three definitions 1. Personal Papers means identification documents issued by your country, state or province including but not limited to your driver’s license and passport. 2. Personal Papers means a natural accumulation of documents created or accumulated by an individual or family belonging to him or her and subject to his or her disposition. 3. Personal Papers means nonofficial documents maintained by an individual at a place of work or on an enterprise network or equipment. Although I certainly don't doubt this court would choose definition 1 if it so suited them, or the definition you are arguing here, I still would not believe the argument was one made in good faith.
  - quantified 4y ago
    Are your telephone conversations "documents"? Your Facetime chats? An email is not under your control, it sits on a server of a private organization. While statutes of the government may currently protect it, are these statutes supported by SCOTUS interpretation of the constitution? Certainly anything you say or do in public can be recorded by as many microphones and cameras as the government may choose.