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As a non-js developer I found Alpine lacking. In the examples they use something like await axios get to get new content. I have no idea what any of those mean

As a non-js developer I found Alpine lacking. In the examples they use something like await axios get to get new content. I have no idea what any of those mean or why they have to there in that order with that syntax. HTMX makes this incredibly simple: <div hx-get="/example">Get Some HTML</div>

egeozcan 4y ago
What does "hx-get" do? Does it replace the HTML from that url? Why is it on a div, does it happen on load or does it wait for an event? It's a study on its own: https://htmx.org/reference/ https://htmx.org/reference/ Oh, apparently I can put hx-trigger="mouseup mousemove delay:500ms" there to make it explicit. I mean this thing has its own DSL, and IMHO, you are escaping from JS and jumping to another language, which you still have to learn and less people know of. In alpine, it's explicit. You can say fetch, then replace something in your data, and use that thing in your x-html. You still need to learn some, but in my experience, much less to keep in mind than htmx. OTOH, Next.js is even easier than Alpine to learn. You just create pages as js files and run the server. Yes, you need to run a BFF (back-end for front-end) but it's just that. The thing even updates in real-time. Only thing that can match this is Phoenix LiveView but I can't speak for it as I've just played with it and nothing more.
horsawlarway 4y ago
Yeah... I'm about as far to the other side of this as you can get. It really looks like the x-html attribute you're complaining about is just using plain old javascript. It takes a statement that resolves to a string, and renders that. The statement they provided happens to be pretty terrible for docs (I would have just used the built in fetch api, instead of the axios networking library - https://github.com/axios/axios https://github.com/axios/axios), but it's plain old js regardless. Your example is some custom fucking DSL that I have NO idea what it's doing. When does it run? how does it handle errors? What is the base url? What happens to the original text? How does it auth? What if I needed to post, or put, or delete? It's an entire fucking language I have to learn on top of the actual css/html/js knowledge required to understand this. In almost all cases, you're better off just learning "plain old javascript" since that skillset travels with you everywhere. basically: DO NOT MAKE ME LEARN YOUR FUCKING DSL. It's wasted time and effort for me, and learning it provides absolutely zero benefits outside of your library. Further - it will fucking leak, and then you're right back at writing plain old js again, but now you have to understand the intimate details of the library implementing the dsl to tweak the right spots. Even alpine turns me off a bit here (it's still a dsl, even if most of it reverts to plain old js) - but at least they're incredibly up front about the total time investment to learn the dsl (15 attrs, 6 props, 2 methods). HTMX is like 5 times the size (https://htmx.org/reference/ https://htmx.org/reference/), so I assume roughly 20 times the effort to learn the DSL.
- harryvederci 4y ago
  Maybe that's enough internet for you today? No one is "fucking" making you do anything. Pick the tooling you like, ignore the ones you don't like.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    These frontend tooling threads devolve quickly.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

egeozcan 4y ago

What does "hx-get" do? Does it replace the HTML from that url? Why is it on a div, does it happen on load or does it wait for an event? It's a study on its own: https://htmx.org/reference/ https://htmx.org/reference/ Oh, apparently I can put hx-trigger="mouseup mousemove delay:500ms" there to make it explicit. I mean this thing has its own DSL, and IMHO, you are escaping from JS and jumping to another language, which you still have to learn and less people know of. In alpine, it's explicit. You can say fetch, then replace something in your data, and use that thing in your x-html. You still need to learn some, but in my experience, much less to keep in mind than htmx. OTOH, Next.js is even easier than Alpine to learn. You just create pages as js files and run the server. Yes, you need to run a BFF (back-end for front-end) but it's just that. The thing even updates in real-time. Only thing that can match this is Phoenix LiveView but I can't speak for it as I've just played with it and nothing more.

horsawlarway 4y ago

Yeah... I'm about as far to the other side of this as you can get. It really looks like the x-html attribute you're complaining about is just using plain old javascript. It takes a statement that resolves to a string, and renders that. The statement they provided happens to be pretty terrible for docs (I would have just used the built in fetch api, instead of the axios networking library - https://github.com/axios/axios https://github.com/axios/axios), but it's plain old js regardless. Your example is some custom fucking DSL that I have NO idea what it's doing. When does it run? how does it handle errors? What is the base url? What happens to the original text? How does it auth? What if I needed to post, or put, or delete? It's an entire fucking language I have to learn on top of the actual css/html/js knowledge required to understand this. In almost all cases, you're better off just learning "plain old javascript" since that skillset travels with you everywhere. basically: DO NOT MAKE ME LEARN YOUR FUCKING DSL. It's wasted time and effort for me, and learning it provides absolutely zero benefits outside of your library. Further - it will fucking leak, and then you're right back at writing plain old js again, but now you have to understand the intimate details of the library implementing the dsl to tweak the right spots. Even alpine turns me off a bit here (it's still a dsl, even if most of it reverts to plain old js) - but at least they're incredibly up front about the total time investment to learn the dsl (15 attrs, 6 props, 2 methods). HTMX is like 5 times the size (https://htmx.org/reference/ https://htmx.org/reference/), so I assume roughly 20 times the effort to learn the DSL.

harryvederci 4y ago
Maybe that's enough internet for you today? No one is "fucking" making you do anything. Pick the tooling you like, ignore the ones you don't like.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  These frontend tooling threads devolve quickly.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]