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Some back-of-the-grubby-napkin maths. Nuclear is currently about 10% of global electricity production. We could go all-nuclear, therefore, by going 10x on nucl
by rich_sasha 4y ago
Some back-of-the-grubby-napkin maths.
Nuclear is currently about 10% of global electricity production. We could go all-nuclear, therefore, by going 10x on nuclear reactors (less in fact because there are renewables too but nvm).
There have been two major, critical nuclear energy incidents - Chernobyl and Fukushima. I'll count them both, though see caveat [1]. That's 2 incidents in 50 years. If we went all-nuclear and extrapolated, that'd be 20 incidents per 50 years, or 40 per century. UN estimates 4,000 deaths from Chernobyl (contentious but I'll stick with it). Wikipedia quotes Fukushima as 2,000 deaths - well, 2,002 deaths caused by evacuations and 1 in the incident. Let's not mince around and make it 4,000 per pop.
40 incidents per century at 4,000 deaths per event, that's a total of 160,000 deaths per _century_. In return, we're basically carbon-neutral and don't need storage. How many people die if we're not carbon-neutral? Millions for a start. It seems like a no-brainer to me. Also subtract all the deaths from not-generating power using these now-replaced means, improvements to air quality from not burning stuff, and I think humanity is in a much, much happier place.
I'm not saying nuclear is without downsides, I'm saying if you take all the downsides on the chin, nuclearise through the nose, you're better off than the alternative of burning stuff. Solar and wind are great but plenty of regions would require months worth of storage, which we're nowhere near to technologically.
So, now some nuance:
[1] Chernobyl, as I understand it, was basically man-made. Fukushima happened in one of the most extreme environments - east coast of Japan, one of the world's most seismically active regions. Also nuclear safety went ahead since then - these were both designs from 70s (!), we're 50 years away from the 70s.
[2] There are proliferation risks (though I still question whether they are as bad as global warming), but most of carbon emissions are from rich countries anyway (and we kinda equate rich with non-terrorist).
[3] Nuclear is expensive, but it is because it got much safer. We could, presumably, just take the old, less safe designs and build using those - and recreate all the above back-of-the-napkin maths. We could instead assume nuclear is indeed very expensive, but then we'd need to reduce the expected death toll numbers.
[4] Many regions can perhaps, indeed, do without nuclear and rely on solar, wind and hydro - great, good for you. Can you really do it without gas peaker plants or other "top ups"? Well if you can even nicer, but plenty of places cannot. But that's all good, that means we need less nuclear to achieve the same zero-carbon goal.
- black_puppydog 4y agoI'll preface this by stating that I'm German and I'm intuitively against using nuclear. But hear me out anyhow. :) At this point the climate crisis is bad enough that I won't even fight against nuclear as such. If you can build it safely I won't stand in your way. I'll be busy across the street, fighting against coal, oil & gas. Thing is, the time scale at which nuclear stations are constructed isn't at all the same as for renewables; starting the planning for new nuclear now isn't gonna put us on the right track to a livable future. Nuclear plants are huge; the big ones that would really be needed for a big shift like you describe would take a while to go online. Which is okay I think; if anything, we'll need much more electricity in total anyhow as we electrify more processes. But we'll need more low-carbon energy much before that, now more than ever. So I'll only agree with this if it's not an either or but doing both. Caveat: I don't trust big profit driven corporations, nor states, to run nuclear plants in an honestly safety-oriented way. I have yet to hear a proposal how the incentives could be set up to change that. If nuclear is relatively casualty-free so far, I feel that's mostly luck, and indeed there were a few close calls. Don't start arguing with me on this one please because it's not the core of my argument (here). :)
- otter-rock 4y agoPeople often don't realize that intermittent renewables must be paired with backup generation or storage. But energy storage at the scale of a 100% renewable system is currently an unsolved problem. So you really only have two options: 1. Continue to back up with fossil fuels 2. Temporarily back up with nuclear Check my comment history for a debate on nuclear safety.
- black_puppydog 4y ago> Temporarily back up with nuclear I think the assumption that we can build nuclear baseload capacity faster than storage solutions is... just that. An assumption. Needs citation.
- rich_sasha 4y ago