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I'm actually surprised that he has resigned (but apparently not left) and wonder if its misdirection as he plots a way back in. If there's a lesson that the las

I'm actually surprised that he has resigned (but apparently not left) and wonder if its misdirection as he plots a way back in. If there's a lesson that the last years have taught politicians, it seems to be that if you just violate norms, never admit defeat, and never back down and just ride things out, you can get away with an awful lot. Edit to add an interesting article about who might replace him: https://www.axios.com/2022/07/06/uk-prime-minister-johnson-resignation-conservative-party https://www.axios.com/2022/07/06/uk-prime-minister-johnson-r...

tehbeard 4y ago
As I understand it his current term is a month or so short of the person he backstabbed (Tehresa may) to get the position... It's a petty enough reason for him...
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
  i like that your username and spelling of that witches name both match. i love this kind of subtly absurd humour. good work.
  - tehbeard 4y ago
    Honestly unintentional on the witches name, spellcheck failed me yet again.
origin_path 4y ago
That's very unlikely in this case. Johnson already tried to hang on longer than he really should have done, albeit he did survive a motion of no confidence. It took the mass resignations of his cabinet to force him out. The "never back down or admit defeat" seems mostly to apply to bureaucrats and public health officials. Conservative MPs are famous for resigning when they think honorable norms have been violated (as they see it), and getting rid of leaders once they become an electoral liability.
- pmyteh 4y ago
  I mean, Thomas Dugdale is famous for resigning when he thought an honourable norm had been violated (he took responsibility for the maladministration of his officials, which is the essentially theoretical responsibility of a minister) but that was in 1954. And even in that case it turned out in retrospect that he was responsible for some of the maladministration himself. Knifing ineffective leaders, yes - that is a reputation they still have. But I wouldn't see any of the recent resignations as anything other than opportunistic: they knew perfectly well that Johnson was an untrustworthy scoundrel well before they joined his government.
  - origin_path 4y ago
    All British governments see regular resignations of ministers with the cited reasons always being policy disagreements or dishonourable behavior. You seem to believe the last time it happened was 1954 but that's not correct. Look at this graph of ministerial resignations by Prime Minister (second on the page): https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-s-premiership-in-seven-graphs https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-s-premiership-in-s... All PMs regardless of Party experience continuous attrition of ministers, because being willing to resign from a government job for moral or policy reasons is considered a fundamental part of the honor code of being MP.
    - pmyteh 4y ago
      Policy disagreements, sure. And you can certainly read those as questions of honour/morality. Robin Cook over the Iraq war, perhaps, or Michael Heseltine over the Westland affair. As for 'resignations' on the grounds of ministerial misbehaviour, I'm afraid they almost always come down to one of two things. Either the PM isn't personally prepared to put up with it (in which case a resignation is requested) or the political fallout has become so severe that either the minister doesn't want to face the music any more (in which case they will resign more or less in disgrace) or the PM can't afford the political cost of extending cover any further (in which case they will be asked to resign more or less in disgrace). I am quite sure there are honourable people in politics. Estelle Morris famously resigned as Secretary of State for Education on the basis that she didn't feel up to it. There are probably a handful of others. But resigning without being forced on the grounds of a self-identified moral lapse is astonishingly rare. Again, you occasionally get people resigning on the basis they think their PM is dishonourable, but even then it's mainly just politics. (Everyone currently leaving Johnson's cabinet knew of his objectionable character before signing on, for example). The modern Conservative party mostly has a reputation for corruption (which we politely call 'sleaze') rather than honour and probity. That dates back to at least the early 90s and has been recently reinforced. Labour's reputation is in the gutter too, though possibly not to quite the same extent. (I teach political communication in a British university and have previously interned in Parliament, FWIW. The strong tension between our 'good chaps' theory of government (with its actors behaving honourably at all times) and the nakedly political behaviour of ministers and parliamentarians in actual practice has been part of what we teach politics students for decades).

tehbeard 4y ago

As I understand it his current term is a month or so short of the person he backstabbed (Tehresa may) to get the position... It's a petty enough reason for him...

5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
i like that your username and spelling of that witches name both match. i love this kind of subtly absurd humour. good work.
- tehbeard 4y ago
  Honestly unintentional on the witches name, spellcheck failed me yet again.

origin_path 4y ago

That's very unlikely in this case. Johnson already tried to hang on longer than he really should have done, albeit he did survive a motion of no confidence. It took the mass resignations of his cabinet to force him out. The "never back down or admit defeat" seems mostly to apply to bureaucrats and public health officials. Conservative MPs are famous for resigning when they think honorable norms have been violated (as they see it), and getting rid of leaders once they become an electoral liability.

pmyteh 4y ago
I mean, Thomas Dugdale is famous for resigning when he thought an honourable norm had been violated (he took responsibility for the maladministration of his officials, which is the essentially theoretical responsibility of a minister) but that was in 1954. And even in that case it turned out in retrospect that he was responsible for some of the maladministration himself. Knifing ineffective leaders, yes - that is a reputation they still have. But I wouldn't see any of the recent resignations as anything other than opportunistic: they knew perfectly well that Johnson was an untrustworthy scoundrel well before they joined his government.
- origin_path 4y ago
  All British governments see regular resignations of ministers with the cited reasons always being policy disagreements or dishonourable behavior. You seem to believe the last time it happened was 1954 but that's not correct. Look at this graph of ministerial resignations by Prime Minister (second on the page): https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-s-premiership-in-seven-graphs https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-s-premiership-in-s... All PMs regardless of Party experience continuous attrition of ministers, because being willing to resign from a government job for moral or policy reasons is considered a fundamental part of the honor code of being MP.
  - pmyteh 4y ago
    Policy disagreements, sure. And you can certainly read those as questions of honour/morality. Robin Cook over the Iraq war, perhaps, or Michael Heseltine over the Westland affair. As for 'resignations' on the grounds of ministerial misbehaviour, I'm afraid they almost always come down to one of two things. Either the PM isn't personally prepared to put up with it (in which case a resignation is requested) or the political fallout has become so severe that either the minister doesn't want to face the music any more (in which case they will resign more or less in disgrace) or the PM can't afford the political cost of extending cover any further (in which case they will be asked to resign more or less in disgrace). I am quite sure there are honourable people in politics. Estelle Morris famously resigned as Secretary of State for Education on the basis that she didn't feel up to it. There are probably a handful of others. But resigning without being forced on the grounds of a self-identified moral lapse is astonishingly rare. Again, you occasionally get people resigning on the basis they think their PM is dishonourable, but even then it's mainly just politics. (Everyone currently leaving Johnson's cabinet knew of his objectionable character before signing on, for example). The modern Conservative party mostly has a reputation for corruption (which we politely call 'sleaze') rather than honour and probity. That dates back to at least the early 90s and has been recently reinforced. Labour's reputation is in the gutter too, though possibly not to quite the same extent. (I teach political communication in a British university and have previously interned in Parliament, FWIW. The strong tension between our 'good chaps' theory of government (with its actors behaving honourably at all times) and the nakedly political behaviour of ministers and parliamentarians in actual practice has been part of what we teach politics students for decades).