5 ms·

Should tech founders get the hell out of Europe?

1 points by AnhTho_FR 4y ago

eesmith 4y ago
Actual title appears to be "Europe needs to catch up on pivot culture". The "get the hell out of Europe" comment appears to be editorializing by the submitter. Reminds me of Jean-Louis Gassée's comment along the lines that failure is a key part Silicon Valley, and is a reason for its success. Can't find Gassée's actual quote, but found something similar at https://money.cnn.com/2009/04/08/technology/french_entrepreneurs.fortune/index.htm https://money.cnn.com/2009/04/08/technology/french_entrepren... from 13 years ago: > "France has been much more friendly to big firms than it has been to start-ups," says Isabelle Lescent-Giles, an associate professor of international business at San José State University whose studies compare business cultures in Europe, U.S. and Asia. "Launching a start-up in France is like playing Russian roulette in some ways." > Failure is not tolerated in French business culture as it is in the U.S., Lescent-Giles says, and both the legal and social consequences of bankruptcy are much more dire in France. The government dominates the economy, and the business elite is almost exclusively recruited from the elite schools, the Grandes Écoles. Still, 1) I recommend changing the titled to reflect the linked-to content, and 2) point out that this doesn't reflect a new change in business practices.
- Shadonototra 4y ago
  Silicon Valley success has nothing to do with "failure is a key", it has to do with the infinite money they print and the tax benefits VCs get as a result What people buy from Silicon Valley nowadays? nothing, they become millionaire before getting their first customer SF is becoming a shit hole, 0 infrastructure investments, everything goes to few pockets, and they move The best EU can do is to not replicate that and tax the shit out of everything that's coming from the US, so they can develop and grow in peace without the toilet paper payers coming destroying everything Also your comment on failure is not allowed in EU is wrong, it is allowed, if you fail you get a ton of help The problem EU has is every success story either get stopped net by US lawyers, or they get purchased with toilet paper money
  - eesmith 4y ago
    If I read between the lines of your response, it seems tech founders should absolutely move to the US to get a bit of that infinite money, as they can pivot and re-pivot while improving VC tax benefits. I'm still trying to track down the J-L G quote. https://books.google.com/books?id=CLxzUW4V_2cC&lpg=PA218&ots=H_L2Fr5x_u&dq=Jean-Louis+Gass%C3%A9e+failure+silicon+valley+france&lr=&hl=en&pg=PA247&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=failure&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=CLxzUW4V_2cC&lpg=PA218&ots... shows a matching few snippets from "Understanding Silicon Valley: The Anatomy of an Entrepreneurial Region" (2001), like > 4. Many have remarked that in Silicon Valley there is little stigma attached to failure. Many have attributed this to a "cultural" trait; few have considered that it is in the interest of the venture capitalists to lower the cost of failure. It is critical to the entire system that entrepreneurs continue to venture. Discouragement and punishment increases the cost of failure and offers little economic return to the venture capitalists. https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/03068291211245745/full/html https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/03068291... attributes this "failure" explanation to the "flexible recycling mechanism" of Bahrami and Evans, 1995 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2307/41165799 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2307/41165799 . My memory of the J-L G quote is from the late 1990s/early 2000s, so almost certainly derives from ideas passed around at the time from one wag to the next. Another phrase I found in this context is "learning by doing and failing". Oh, you'll totally love (not!) this paper, "Failing Better: What We Learn" at https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam-Thierer/publication/308710137_Failing_Better_What_We_Learn_by_Confronting_Risk_and_Uncertainty/links/5a134b96aca27217b5a2f235/Failing-Better-What-We-Learn-by-Confronting-Risk-and-Uncertainty.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam-Thierer/publicatio... Seems the US is so great at internet companies because the Data Protection Directive, "instituted highly restrictive policies governing online data collection and use" prevented innovation in Europe. Quoting it: "Often overlooked in the success of American start-ups is the even greater number of failures. “Fail fast, fail often” is a Silicon Valley mantra, and the freedom to innovate is inextricably linked to the freedom to fail. In Europe, failure carries a much greater stigma than it does in the United States." citing “A Fearless Culture Fuels U.S. Tech Giants,” New York Times, June 19, 2015, http://www.nytimes http://www.nytimes. com/2015/06/19/business/the-american-way-of-tech-and-europes.html Yeah, don't go reading that rah-rah-America-is-so-much-better NYT piece. Apparently "Even the vaunted European child-rearing, she believes, is too prescriptive" and "European children may be better behaved, but American children may end up being more free to explore new things."

1 points by AnhTho_FR 4y ago

Actual title appears to be "Europe needs to catch up on pivot culture". The "get the hell out of Europe" comment appears to be editorializing by the submitter. Reminds me of Jean-Louis Gassée's comment along the lines that failure is a key part Silicon Valley, and is a reason for its success. Can't find Gassée's actual quote, but found something similar at https://money.cnn.com/2009/04/08/technology/french_entrepreneurs.fortune/index.htm https://money.cnn.com/2009/04/08/technology/french_entrepren... from 13 years ago: > "France has been much more friendly to big firms than it has been to start-ups," says Isabelle Lescent-Giles, an associate professor of international business at San José State University whose studies compare business cultures in Europe, U.S. and Asia. "Launching a start-up in France is like playing Russian roulette in some ways." > Failure is not tolerated in French business culture as it is in the U.S., Lescent-Giles says, and both the legal and social consequences of bankruptcy are much more dire in France. The government dominates the economy, and the business elite is almost exclusively recruited from the elite schools, the Grandes Écoles. Still, 1) I recommend changing the titled to reflect the linked-to content, and 2) point out that this doesn't reflect a new change in business practices.

Shadonototra 4y ago
Silicon Valley success has nothing to do with "failure is a key", it has to do with the infinite money they print and the tax benefits VCs get as a result What people buy from Silicon Valley nowadays? nothing, they become millionaire before getting their first customer SF is becoming a shit hole, 0 infrastructure investments, everything goes to few pockets, and they move The best EU can do is to not replicate that and tax the shit out of everything that's coming from the US, so they can develop and grow in peace without the toilet paper payers coming destroying everything Also your comment on failure is not allowed in EU is wrong, it is allowed, if you fail you get a ton of help The problem EU has is every success story either get stopped net by US lawyers, or they get purchased with toilet paper money
- eesmith 4y ago
  If I read between the lines of your response, it seems tech founders should absolutely move to the US to get a bit of that infinite money, as they can pivot and re-pivot while improving VC tax benefits. I'm still trying to track down the J-L G quote. https://books.google.com/books?id=CLxzUW4V_2cC&lpg=PA218&ots=H_L2Fr5x_u&dq=Jean-Louis+Gass%C3%A9e+failure+silicon+valley+france&lr=&hl=en&pg=PA247&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=failure&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=CLxzUW4V_2cC&lpg=PA218&ots... shows a matching few snippets from "Understanding Silicon Valley: The Anatomy of an Entrepreneurial Region" (2001), like > 4. Many have remarked that in Silicon Valley there is little stigma attached to failure. Many have attributed this to a "cultural" trait; few have considered that it is in the interest of the venture capitalists to lower the cost of failure. It is critical to the entire system that entrepreneurs continue to venture. Discouragement and punishment increases the cost of failure and offers little economic return to the venture capitalists. https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/03068291211245745/full/html https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/03068291... attributes this "failure" explanation to the "flexible recycling mechanism" of Bahrami and Evans, 1995 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2307/41165799 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.2307/41165799 . My memory of the J-L G quote is from the late 1990s/early 2000s, so almost certainly derives from ideas passed around at the time from one wag to the next. Another phrase I found in this context is "learning by doing and failing". Oh, you'll totally love (not!) this paper, "Failing Better: What We Learn" at https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam-Thierer/publication/308710137_Failing_Better_What_We_Learn_by_Confronting_Risk_and_Uncertainty/links/5a134b96aca27217b5a2f235/Failing-Better-What-We-Learn-by-Confronting-Risk-and-Uncertainty.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam-Thierer/publicatio... Seems the US is so great at internet companies because the Data Protection Directive, "instituted highly restrictive policies governing online data collection and use" prevented innovation in Europe. Quoting it: "Often overlooked in the success of American start-ups is the even greater number of failures. “Fail fast, fail often” is a Silicon Valley mantra, and the freedom to innovate is inextricably linked to the freedom to fail. In Europe, failure carries a much greater stigma than it does in the United States." citing “A Fearless Culture Fuels U.S. Tech Giants,” New York Times, June 19, 2015, http://www.nytimes http://www.nytimes. com/2015/06/19/business/the-american-way-of-tech-and-europes.html Yeah, don't go reading that rah-rah-America-is-so-much-better NYT piece. Apparently "Even the vaunted European child-rearing, she believes, is too prescriptive" and "European children may be better behaved, but American children may end up being more free to explore new things."