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OP mentioned they are backend developers-- and you are asking them to do a whole frontend setup? Your answer is a bit like "Oh just recompile the Linux kernel

OP mentioned they are backend developers-- and you are asking them to do a whole frontend setup? Your answer is a bit like "Oh just recompile the Linux kernel if you want feature X, its so easy LOL"

anakaine 4y ago
Thanks for taking charge on this one. You've stated my feelings when it comes to doing all the css, javascript and html
christophilus 4y ago
It’s really not a huge hurdle. You have to install a few tools. If you’re a backend developer, this shouldn’t be too challenging. And what you get in return is: Tailwind: CSS done right, in my opinion. If you haven’t tried it, it’s amazing. It’s a no brainer if you’re not great at CSS (which a self-proclaimed backend developer would not be). React or Preact: it’s much better than cobbling together strings of HTML or using some proprietary template system. You build views with JavaScript and a teeny bit of syntactic sugar. Vite: I haven’t used, but I do use esbuild which it abstracts. It’s fast, and gets out of your way so you can bundle everything up nicely. If you add TypeScript to the mix, you now have one of the most advanced compilers in the world helping you catch your mistakes early. I know it’s popular to bash on front end folks. I’ve been writing front ends, back ends, embedded systems, and more for over 20 years. These tools legitimately solve some gnarly problems and have turned an area I previously hated (web front ends) into one I kinda sorta like (or at least don’t hate).
- KronisLV 4y ago
  Some might disagree with these arguments on the account of smaller projects not necessarily "needing" all of that functionality, but personally I think that you do bring up some nice points! In my eyes, it's important to find a technology stack that can scale both up and down in what it does - something that would be good enough for you to ship both production ready software with a bit more effort, as well as knock together a proof of concept in a weekend. Something that's good enough to be used in a team of people who have general experience in the industry (be it full-stack work or front-end in particular), as well as use on your own. Why? Because the time I have for learning technologies and ironing out all the quirks in any particular setup is limited, it's far easier to make a few template repositories and a few customized component libraries of your own (which may just be renamed Bootstrap integration with a few additional personal touches and quality of life improvements) that you can throw in a new project and start working with it ASAP, not just work with 5 different stacks in 10 different projects, needing to constantly context switch. Coincidentally, that's also one of the many reasons why most of my apps use containers as their runtimes (standardization regardless of orchestrator) and I don't scoff at boring languages like Java that let you use them as a hammer to beat in those pesky screws in their place.
vallavaraiyan 4y ago
Bad analogy. It's more akin to installing postgres and rails for backend development, which is not an unfair ask. They can write plain HTML and some barebone css, and thats ok. That'll be similar to asking a backend dev to ftp some php file to a shared host.

OP mentioned they are backend developers-- and you are asking them to do a whole frontend setup? Your answer is a bit like "Oh just recompile the Linux kernel if you want feature X, its so easy LOL"

anakaine 4y ago

Thanks for taking charge on this one. You've stated my feelings when it comes to doing all the css, javascript and html

christophilus 4y ago

It’s really not a huge hurdle. You have to install a few tools. If you’re a backend developer, this shouldn’t be too challenging. And what you get in return is: Tailwind: CSS done right, in my opinion. If you haven’t tried it, it’s amazing. It’s a no brainer if you’re not great at CSS (which a self-proclaimed backend developer would not be). React or Preact: it’s much better than cobbling together strings of HTML or using some proprietary template system. You build views with JavaScript and a teeny bit of syntactic sugar. Vite: I haven’t used, but I do use esbuild which it abstracts. It’s fast, and gets out of your way so you can bundle everything up nicely. If you add TypeScript to the mix, you now have one of the most advanced compilers in the world helping you catch your mistakes early. I know it’s popular to bash on front end folks. I’ve been writing front ends, back ends, embedded systems, and more for over 20 years. These tools legitimately solve some gnarly problems and have turned an area I previously hated (web front ends) into one I kinda sorta like (or at least don’t hate).

KronisLV 4y ago
Some might disagree with these arguments on the account of smaller projects not necessarily "needing" all of that functionality, but personally I think that you do bring up some nice points! In my eyes, it's important to find a technology stack that can scale both up and down in what it does - something that would be good enough for you to ship both production ready software with a bit more effort, as well as knock together a proof of concept in a weekend. Something that's good enough to be used in a team of people who have general experience in the industry (be it full-stack work or front-end in particular), as well as use on your own. Why? Because the time I have for learning technologies and ironing out all the quirks in any particular setup is limited, it's far easier to make a few template repositories and a few customized component libraries of your own (which may just be renamed Bootstrap integration with a few additional personal touches and quality of life improvements) that you can throw in a new project and start working with it ASAP, not just work with 5 different stacks in 10 different projects, needing to constantly context switch. Coincidentally, that's also one of the many reasons why most of my apps use containers as their runtimes (standardization regardless of orchestrator) and I don't scoff at boring languages like Java that let you use them as a hammer to beat in those pesky screws in their place.

vallavaraiyan 4y ago

Bad analogy. It's more akin to installing postgres and rails for backend development, which is not an unfair ask. They can write plain HTML and some barebone css, and thats ok. That'll be similar to asking a backend dev to ftp some php file to a shared host.