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> It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. 100%. Worse

> It seems many of us focused on STEM STEM STEM or COMPUTERS COMPUTERS COMPUTERS in education but perhaps are emotionally infantile to an extent. 100%. Worse than that, I think we are even encouraged to be computer-like. We are told that AI can be conscious - that we are just a machine. As if emotions/intuition/spirituality are non-existent. The core problem for me is that the principles that drive most us are not our own - they are installed in us by school, society, etc. You can take the time to work out what they really should be. Eg is trying to be based in truth a valuable principle? What am I assuming and have not verified? Is the 'golden rule' a principle that I should follow (don't do unto other as I wouldn't have done to me)? What happens when I follow this? The way I think about it is that when we die, we judge ourselves. You can bullshit your boss, neighbour, partner even - but you can't bullshit yourself. You know why you choose what you choose, and whether this accords with the principles you purport to hold. If you choose according to your heart, whether you believe in life after death or not, there is a value to it in the here and now. No, money/jobs/[some other provided external goal] isn't everything; being yourself and living authentically according to your heart is.

Swenrekcah 4y ago
I agree that intuition and spirituality is completely discounted in western/scientific culture. It is entirely possible to be a secular spiritualist. Make it a habit to feel one with nature and the world around you, without any supernaturals entering into the picture. And funnily enough, for all people dunk on experts and say they can rely on themselves instead, it is pretty much the definition of an expert to be a person that has so much experience with something that they have developed good intuition for it. That’s also why everybody is useless as an expert just coming out of school, they may know all the theory but none of the practicalities. Anyway I just wanted to say that none of this is incompatible with the premise that we’re basically meat based automata that accidentally developed consciousness. I don’t think we’re anywhere near developing general AI but in principle I don’t see why it couldn’t be done.
- burrows 4y ago
  You are not conscious, stop pretending.
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    Adrift in a world of my own
    - burrows 4y ago
      Who is adrift?
anthk 4y ago
>spirituality are non-existent. It is. It doesn't exist.
- mistermann 4y ago
  And yet here we are talking about it, again.
  - anthk 4y ago
    So do we with unicorns.
    - mistermann 4y ago
      An extremely common association that forms in the mind when a mind is exposed to the idea of religion. But regardless: do any conclusions derive from your observation? My point was: it is an interesting phenomenon whereby people who claim that certain things do not exist seem to have a deep interest in discussing them. Another interesting phenomenon: there are certain ideas that cause the unforced errors in cognition to spike, and religion and spirituality is one of the more potent ones - it can cause people who are otherwise exceptional at logic to suddenly lose access to those abilities. If you ask me, science should be studying this phenomenon with greater vigour due to its (plausible) causal importance.
- NateEag 4y ago
  > It is. [Spirituality] doesn't exist. The majority of people on the planet claim to practice some religion / have some spiritual practice. I think that means spirituality exists, as it's practiced to at least some extent by billions of people every day. Do you mean the supernatural doesn't exist? I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false. I recommend a much more limited claim, perhaps reflecting your personal experience, such as "I have found no evidence that anything supernatural exists."
  - burrows 4y ago

Swenrekcah 4y ago

I agree that intuition and spirituality is completely discounted in western/scientific culture. It is entirely possible to be a secular spiritualist. Make it a habit to feel one with nature and the world around you, without any supernaturals entering into the picture. And funnily enough, for all people dunk on experts and say they can rely on themselves instead, it is pretty much the definition of an expert to be a person that has so much experience with something that they have developed good intuition for it. That’s also why everybody is useless as an expert just coming out of school, they may know all the theory but none of the practicalities. Anyway I just wanted to say that none of this is incompatible with the premise that we’re basically meat based automata that accidentally developed consciousness. I don’t think we’re anywhere near developing general AI but in principle I don’t see why it couldn’t be done.

burrows 4y ago
You are not conscious, stop pretending.
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  Adrift in a world of my own
  - burrows 4y ago
    Who is adrift?

anthk 4y ago

>spirituality are non-existent. It is. It doesn't exist.

mistermann 4y ago
And yet here we are talking about it, again.
- anthk 4y ago
  So do we with unicorns.
  - mistermann 4y ago
    An extremely common association that forms in the mind when a mind is exposed to the idea of religion. But regardless: do any conclusions derive from your observation? My point was: it is an interesting phenomenon whereby people who claim that certain things do not exist seem to have a deep interest in discussing them. Another interesting phenomenon: there are certain ideas that cause the unforced errors in cognition to spike, and religion and spirituality is one of the more potent ones - it can cause people who are otherwise exceptional at logic to suddenly lose access to those abilities. If you ask me, science should be studying this phenomenon with greater vigour due to its (plausible) causal importance.
NateEag 4y ago
> It is. [Spirituality] doesn't exist. The majority of people on the planet claim to practice some religion / have some spiritual practice. I think that means spirituality exists, as it's practiced to at least some extent by billions of people every day. Do you mean the supernatural doesn't exist? I'd readily grant that most (maybe all?) supernatural claims cannot be falsified, but that doesn't prove they're false. I recommend a much more limited claim, perhaps reflecting your personal experience, such as "I have found no evidence that anything supernatural exists."
- burrows 4y ago