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Don't mean to seem like I'm piling on, but I sincerely would be interested how they would help here?

by asxd 4y ago

boffinAudio 4y ago
NFT's: Anyone can check and verify ownership. Receipts/Credit Card statements: only people with access to the finance system and authorization to check, can verify ownership. For some things, a common public ledger is appropriate. For everything else, there's Mastercard ..
- shakna 4y ago
  Verifying ownership is kinda useless when the distributor no longer distributes, though. You can prove you own a copy. Congrats. So can everyone else with a receipt. However, that doesn't somehow coerce Sony into continuing to provide access.
  - boffinAudio 4y ago
    Where do you stash your receipts? Somewhere you'll find them in two years time when challenged to prove you paid for something? Think that solution scales through the entirety of society? Sony could make a blockchain/NFT solution to their problem and everyone would be happy - it'd be future-proof, licenses would be in-perpetuity, and nobody would have to pay much for the effort. Heck, it'd even give pirates a way to become legitimate service providers. Sony et al., are not doing this, because of antiquated business ideas that serve more as dark patterns than anything else.
    - klez 4y ago
      > Think that solution scales through the entirety of society? It does when I need to get a repair for something I bought that is still under warranty. EDIT: Also: does keeping a cryptographic key safe scale through the entirety of society?
      - boffinAudio 4y ago
        >It does when I need to get a repair for something I bought that is still under warranty. This simply doesn't scale through the entirety of society, because its only relevant to you and your relationship with the content provider. If I'm being challenged on the ownership of movies on my personal laptop - having a publicly accessible register of my purchase of those movies is entirely more useful to me - and society at large - than the "private receipts stashed in a drawer" model you propose is superior to NFT's. >Also: does keeping a cryptographic key safe scale through the entirety of society? Yes. I can depend on it if I need to defend myself against claims of piracy and theft of intellectual property, no matter where I am in the world.. Having a globally-accessible register of my licenses is quite a bit more useful than if those receipts are stashed in a paper file somewhere remote.
        klez 4y ago
        > the "private receipts stashed in a drawer" model you propose is superior to NFT's. I've never said it's "superior". I simply mean it's good enough. I should probably have been more clear on that. Also: > This [physical/digital receipt] simply doesn't scale through the entirety of society, because its only relevant to you and your relationship with the content provider. But then > I can depend on it [NFT/public ledger] if I need to defend myself against claims of piracy and theft of intellectual property, no matter where I am in the world Sorry but I find this contradictory. Can you please explain why the receipt is only relevant me and the content provider but a public ledger isn't? You mean "relevant" as in "there are more actors that can give a 'truth value' to the transaction"?
        boffinAudio 4y ago
        The paper receipt is in your drawer somewhere, you cannot provide it when you're crossing a border and need to convince the security thug that you do in fact own all those movies. An NFT, on the other hand, can be looked up by anyone, anywhere. I don't know what is so difficult to understand about this. The NFT receipt solves a lot of problems that a paper receipt simply makes worse.
  - grumbel 4y ago
    Libraries exist. You don't need Sony when you can proof ownership. Getting a hold of a movie has never been the problem, redistributing it legally is and NFTs make that possible, even without Sony's approval.
    - shakna 4y ago
      This is part of why distribution platforms all have their own cut. You don't own a copy of the movie. You own a copy of a _specific_ movie that was carried by Sony's streaming service and not a library. If the distributor isn't distributing, then there's no legal way to get it. And NFTs don't contain the item purchased. It changes exactly nothing about the situation.
      - grumbel 4y ago
        > If the distributor isn't distributing, then there's no legal way to get it. Many countries already require that a copy of every book published has to be send to the national library: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit Just extend that to digital media. > It changes exactly nothing about the situation. NFT provide you with a transferable proof of ownership. That's a pretty ginormous piece of the puzzle that is missing right now when it comes to digital content. How to download a copy is quite a trivial problem by comparison.
        klez 4y ago
        Yes but what about NFT specifically could not be solved by any other form of electronic (or analog, for that matter) receipt?
        grumbel 4y ago
        NFTs are transferable and service-independent. Meaning you can trade used digital media and they will continue working even when Sony goes out of business, just like physical media would. Another big advantage is that they are generic, they are just abstract "ownership", you can use them for books, games, monkey pictures or concert tickets. Any normal commercial alternative would almost certainly be locked to a specific type of media and to a set of companies, along with strict rules to follow, if they allow any outsiders to participate at all. NFTs are an open system where everybody can build something with them. That said, this is all very theoretical. Blockchain needs to get fast and cheap before any of this makes sense.
- asxd 4y ago
  It's already been brought up by many others, but proof of purchase is not the issue here, right? It's the right to access the content. NFTs don't force Sony to give you your content if they're not legally obliged to.

Don't mean to seem like I'm piling on, but I sincerely would be interested how they would help here?

by asxd 4y ago

Don't mean to seem like I'm piling on, but I sincerely would be interested how they would help here?

NFT's: Anyone can check and verify ownership. Receipts/Credit Card statements: only people with access to the finance system and authorization to check, can verify ownership. For some things, a common public ledger is appropriate. For everything else, there's Mastercard ..

shakna 4y ago
Verifying ownership is kinda useless when the distributor no longer distributes, though. You can prove you own a copy. Congrats. So can everyone else with a receipt. However, that doesn't somehow coerce Sony into continuing to provide access.
- boffinAudio 4y ago
  Where do you stash your receipts? Somewhere you'll find them in two years time when challenged to prove you paid for something? Think that solution scales through the entirety of society? Sony could make a blockchain/NFT solution to their problem and everyone would be happy - it'd be future-proof, licenses would be in-perpetuity, and nobody would have to pay much for the effort. Heck, it'd even give pirates a way to become legitimate service providers. Sony et al., are not doing this, because of antiquated business ideas that serve more as dark patterns than anything else.
  - klez 4y ago
    > Think that solution scales through the entirety of society? It does when I need to get a repair for something I bought that is still under warranty. EDIT: Also: does keeping a cryptographic key safe scale through the entirety of society?
    - boffinAudio 4y ago
      >It does when I need to get a repair for something I bought that is still under warranty. This simply doesn't scale through the entirety of society, because its only relevant to you and your relationship with the content provider. If I'm being challenged on the ownership of movies on my personal laptop - having a publicly accessible register of my purchase of those movies is entirely more useful to me - and society at large - than the "private receipts stashed in a drawer" model you propose is superior to NFT's. >Also: does keeping a cryptographic key safe scale through the entirety of society? Yes. I can depend on it if I need to defend myself against claims of piracy and theft of intellectual property, no matter where I am in the world.. Having a globally-accessible register of my licenses is quite a bit more useful than if those receipts are stashed in a paper file somewhere remote.
      - klez 4y ago
        > the "private receipts stashed in a drawer" model you propose is superior to NFT's. I've never said it's "superior". I simply mean it's good enough. I should probably have been more clear on that. Also: > This [physical/digital receipt] simply doesn't scale through the entirety of society, because its only relevant to you and your relationship with the content provider. But then > I can depend on it [NFT/public ledger] if I need to defend myself against claims of piracy and theft of intellectual property, no matter where I am in the world Sorry but I find this contradictory. Can you please explain why the receipt is only relevant me and the content provider but a public ledger isn't? You mean "relevant" as in "there are more actors that can give a 'truth value' to the transaction"?
        boffinAudio 4y ago
        The paper receipt is in your drawer somewhere, you cannot provide it when you're crossing a border and need to convince the security thug that you do in fact own all those movies. An NFT, on the other hand, can be looked up by anyone, anywhere. I don't know what is so difficult to understand about this. The NFT receipt solves a lot of problems that a paper receipt simply makes worse.
- grumbel 4y ago
  Libraries exist. You don't need Sony when you can proof ownership. Getting a hold of a movie has never been the problem, redistributing it legally is and NFTs make that possible, even without Sony's approval.
  - shakna 4y ago
    This is part of why distribution platforms all have their own cut. You don't own a copy of the movie. You own a copy of a _specific_ movie that was carried by Sony's streaming service and not a library. If the distributor isn't distributing, then there's no legal way to get it. And NFTs don't contain the item purchased. It changes exactly nothing about the situation.
    - grumbel 4y ago
      > If the distributor isn't distributing, then there's no legal way to get it. Many countries already require that a copy of every book published has to be send to the national library: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_deposit Just extend that to digital media. > It changes exactly nothing about the situation. NFT provide you with a transferable proof of ownership. That's a pretty ginormous piece of the puzzle that is missing right now when it comes to digital content. How to download a copy is quite a trivial problem by comparison.
      - klez 4y ago
        Yes but what about NFT specifically could not be solved by any other form of electronic (or analog, for that matter) receipt?
        grumbel 4y ago
        NFTs are transferable and service-independent. Meaning you can trade used digital media and they will continue working even when Sony goes out of business, just like physical media would. Another big advantage is that they are generic, they are just abstract "ownership", you can use them for books, games, monkey pictures or concert tickets. Any normal commercial alternative would almost certainly be locked to a specific type of media and to a set of companies, along with strict rules to follow, if they allow any outsiders to participate at all. NFTs are an open system where everybody can build something with them. That said, this is all very theoretical. Blockchain needs to get fast and cheap before any of this makes sense.
asxd 4y ago
It's already been brought up by many others, but proof of purchase is not the issue here, right? It's the right to access the content. NFTs don't force Sony to give you your content if they're not legally obliged to.