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Again - every nation altered those laws and most did just fine. There aren’t any “universal laws of economics”; it’s all entirely man-made and there are many d

by trasz 4y ago

Again - every nation altered those laws and most did just fine. There aren’t any “universal laws of economics”; it’s all entirely man-made and there are many different variations.

lisper 4y ago
> There aren’t any “universal laws of economics” Yes, there are. Let's go back to your original claim: > Economics, on the other hand, is man-made and can be adjusted as required. Think about it: if this were true, it would be possible to "adjust" the laws of economics to (say) eliminate poverty. So if eliminating poverty is a simple matter of "adjusting" economics, why hasn't any nation on earth ever eliminated poverty by "adjusting" its economics? It's because economics is not "man-made", it's a consequence of human psychology, which is a natural phenomenon and therefore operates according to natural laws, not man-made ones. It is not possible to eliminate poverty simply by "adjusting" economics. There are actual underlying constraints that you have to operate under: finite resources, the fact that people won't work without incentives, the fact that different people want different things. One man's "poverty" is another man's "freedom." BTW, even Jesus recognized that you cannot eliminate poverty simply by sharing: Mat26:6-11.
- trasz 4y ago
  Those that would like to eliminate poverty aren’t those making decisions. If laws of economy were fixed, how come they change over time?
  - lisper 4y ago
    They don't. You are confusing "the laws of economics" with "legislation relating to economics". Those are two completely different things. The latter changes, the former doesn't.
    - trasz 4y ago
      They do. Neoliberalism used to be considered a serious theory not that long ago.
      - lisper 4y ago
        Our knowledge of the laws of economics changes. The laws themselves don't because they are simply logical consequences of the laws of physics. The latter doesn't change, so neither does the former.
        trasz 4y ago
        Again - physics is not man-made, economics is. We don’t discover economics, we invent it.
        lisper 4y ago
        But all of our inventions are constrained by physics. We invent airplanes too, we do not invent the laws of aerodynamics. We invent electronics, we do not invent the laws of electrodynamics. Economics is likewise constrained by natural law. This why, for example, you cannot eliminate poverty by printing fiat currency and giving it to poor people.
        trasz 4y ago
        >you cannot eliminate poverty by printing fiat currency and giving it to poor people Are you saying UBI can’t eliminate poverty?
        lisper 4y ago
        No, I am saying that you cannot eliminate poverty by printing fiat currency and giving it to poor people. (I also happen to believe that you cannot eliminate poverty with UBI, but that is a completely different claim. I also believe that we should adopt UBI despite the fact that it won't eliminate poverty. But that is yet another discussion.)

by trasz 4y ago

Again - every nation altered those laws and most did just fine. There aren’t any “universal laws of economics”; it’s all entirely man-made and there are many different variations.

lisper 4y ago

> There aren’t any “universal laws of economics” Yes, there are. Let's go back to your original claim: > Economics, on the other hand, is man-made and can be adjusted as required. Think about it: if this were true, it would be possible to "adjust" the laws of economics to (say) eliminate poverty. So if eliminating poverty is a simple matter of "adjusting" economics, why hasn't any nation on earth ever eliminated poverty by "adjusting" its economics? It's because economics is not "man-made", it's a consequence of human psychology, which is a natural phenomenon and therefore operates according to natural laws, not man-made ones. It is not possible to eliminate poverty simply by "adjusting" economics. There are actual underlying constraints that you have to operate under: finite resources, the fact that people won't work without incentives, the fact that different people want different things. One man's "poverty" is another man's "freedom." BTW, even Jesus recognized that you cannot eliminate poverty simply by sharing: Mat26:6-11.

trasz 4y ago
Those that would like to eliminate poverty aren’t those making decisions. If laws of economy were fixed, how come they change over time?
- lisper 4y ago
  They don't. You are confusing "the laws of economics" with "legislation relating to economics". Those are two completely different things. The latter changes, the former doesn't.
  - trasz 4y ago
    They do. Neoliberalism used to be considered a serious theory not that long ago.
    - lisper 4y ago
      Our knowledge of the laws of economics changes. The laws themselves don't because they are simply logical consequences of the laws of physics. The latter doesn't change, so neither does the former.
      - trasz 4y ago
        Again - physics is not man-made, economics is. We don’t discover economics, we invent it.
        lisper 4y ago
        But all of our inventions are constrained by physics. We invent airplanes too, we do not invent the laws of aerodynamics. We invent electronics, we do not invent the laws of electrodynamics. Economics is likewise constrained by natural law. This why, for example, you cannot eliminate poverty by printing fiat currency and giving it to poor people.
        trasz 4y ago
        >you cannot eliminate poverty by printing fiat currency and giving it to poor people Are you saying UBI can’t eliminate poverty?
        lisper 4y ago
        No, I am saying that you cannot eliminate poverty by printing fiat currency and giving it to poor people. (I also happen to believe that you cannot eliminate poverty with UBI, but that is a completely different claim. I also believe that we should adopt UBI despite the fact that it won't eliminate poverty. But that is yet another discussion.)