2 ms·

Traditionally when using combustion plants the great advantage in nordic countries comes from CHP (combined heat and power), you can extract much more energy fr

Traditionally when using combustion plants the great advantage in nordic countries comes from CHP (combined heat and power), you can extract much more energy from the fuel this way vs having separate electricity and heat plants. But yep great insulation in the network is a requirement.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago
i have been thinking about getting a solar water heater>heat pump>radiator to warm up my home but the costs just dont make sense because of the heat pump. i am told the life expectancy of a good heatpump is like 10 years, that amount divided by only 10 winters it is expected to see is more than what we currently pay for electricity in winters, accepting that we don't currently have whole house heating, (we rely on personal hot water bottles/electric blankets in bed)
- killerpopiller 4y ago
  that can't be true. In Germany it is quite a trend now, but they are installed for many years. What I can read in the boards is not that discouraging. Where does this 10 year number come from?
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
    https://www.racold.com/heat-pump-water-heaters https://www.racold.com/heat-pump-water-heaters >Our heat pump water heater comes with a 2- years warranty and a dependable service for the inner tank. this is like the premium heat pump contract manufacturer. good brand with a good reputation. roughly 10 years is what the installer told me. refrigerators in india come with a 5+10 year warranty usually so this 2 year warranty is indicative.
  - Gasp0de 4y ago
    The internet tells me that split-ac systems (basically small heat pumps) have a life expectancy of 10-20 years. That's not too bad, for example an oil-based heating system (as we have in our german basement) also only has a life expectancy of 20 years and has way less moving parts.
    - soco 4y ago
      My oil based system is 45 years old but no part in it is the original one anymore, so with a certain maintenance cost spread over the years you keep it living indefinitely. Does the ship of Theseus concept apply also for heat pumps, or there you have to throw it away after 10 years?
  - edsykes 4y ago
    Cost wise it only makes sense if you have photo-voltaic on the roof. In Germany there is more acceptance of paying more if there is a (possibly perceived) environmental benefit.
- galfarragem 4y ago
  My father works in that field. In his opinion heat pumps (with today prices and optimizations) are way overrated. The initial investment and the energy spent (it’s way more than advertised) doesn’t make sense for the average family.
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
    i dont mind the energy spent on a day to day basis because i already have a 5.5kwh solar off grid array. i generate around 30 kwh during a good summer month and a fraction during winters but it gets offset from the grid also. the grand scheme as i wrote above does not seem cost effective only because of the heat pump. if it were cheaper, i would definitely buy it because radiators/solar water/solar panels are low/no maintenance while heat pump does have it.
- namibj 4y ago
  You can actually use an absorption heat pump that multiplies your solar thermal collector heat flux by 2~3 to lift outside ambient/ground source temperature to inside levels.
baybal2 4y ago
> But yep great insulation in the network is a requirement. Indeed, even with "free" heat from CHP you can get an economic net loss. Every house connected is a lot if piping, most of it unproductive — heating empty space, and losses in piping. So CHP district heating work best with large apartment buildings, and worst with single family housing. This way Danish 65C° district heating for detached housing may be the worst example of district heating adoption. And even if you do have only commie block style apartments, you may still end with having to add extra heat from local boilers in very cold climates. There regions in Russia where heating eats 1/3 of regional GDP. But an overall, does district heating makes sense? Hell yes, and it must be made mandatory in the West one way, or another, along with policies to prevent counterproductive outcomes.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago

i have been thinking about getting a solar water heater>heat pump>radiator to warm up my home but the costs just dont make sense because of the heat pump. i am told the life expectancy of a good heatpump is like 10 years, that amount divided by only 10 winters it is expected to see is more than what we currently pay for electricity in winters, accepting that we don't currently have whole house heating, (we rely on personal hot water bottles/electric blankets in bed)

killerpopiller 4y ago
that can't be true. In Germany it is quite a trend now, but they are installed for many years. What I can read in the boards is not that discouraging. Where does this 10 year number come from?
- 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
  https://www.racold.com/heat-pump-water-heaters https://www.racold.com/heat-pump-water-heaters >Our heat pump water heater comes with a 2- years warranty and a dependable service for the inner tank. this is like the premium heat pump contract manufacturer. good brand with a good reputation. roughly 10 years is what the installer told me. refrigerators in india come with a 5+10 year warranty usually so this 2 year warranty is indicative.
- Gasp0de 4y ago
  The internet tells me that split-ac systems (basically small heat pumps) have a life expectancy of 10-20 years. That's not too bad, for example an oil-based heating system (as we have in our german basement) also only has a life expectancy of 20 years and has way less moving parts.
  - soco 4y ago
    My oil based system is 45 years old but no part in it is the original one anymore, so with a certain maintenance cost spread over the years you keep it living indefinitely. Does the ship of Theseus concept apply also for heat pumps, or there you have to throw it away after 10 years?
- edsykes 4y ago
  Cost wise it only makes sense if you have photo-voltaic on the roof. In Germany there is more acceptance of paying more if there is a (possibly perceived) environmental benefit.
galfarragem 4y ago
My father works in that field. In his opinion heat pumps (with today prices and optimizations) are way overrated. The initial investment and the energy spent (it’s way more than advertised) doesn’t make sense for the average family.
- 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
  i dont mind the energy spent on a day to day basis because i already have a 5.5kwh solar off grid array. i generate around 30 kwh during a good summer month and a fraction during winters but it gets offset from the grid also. the grand scheme as i wrote above does not seem cost effective only because of the heat pump. if it were cheaper, i would definitely buy it because radiators/solar water/solar panels are low/no maintenance while heat pump does have it.
namibj 4y ago
You can actually use an absorption heat pump that multiplies your solar thermal collector heat flux by 2~3 to lift outside ambient/ground source temperature to inside levels.

baybal2 4y ago

> But yep great insulation in the network is a requirement. Indeed, even with "free" heat from CHP you can get an economic net loss. Every house connected is a lot if piping, most of it unproductive — heating empty space, and losses in piping. So CHP district heating work best with large apartment buildings, and worst with single family housing. This way Danish 65C° district heating for detached housing may be the worst example of district heating adoption. And even if you do have only commie block style apartments, you may still end with having to add extra heat from local boilers in very cold climates. There regions in Russia where heating eats 1/3 of regional GDP. But an overall, does district heating makes sense? Hell yes, and it must be made mandatory in the West one way, or another, along with policies to prevent counterproductive outcomes.