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I’ve spend four years in IL and consider them among the happiest in my life The US right now is a fucking shitshow. It’s one bad election away from being yet a

I’ve spend four years in IL and consider them among the happiest in my life The US right now is a fucking shitshow. It’s one bad election away from being yet another gunslinging theocracy hating women and gay people. They’d probably switch sides and bomb Ukraine, without necessarily looking at a map.

saiya-jin 4y ago
Well if Trump or his followers get the top seat again, Ukraine, and with it half of Europe is fucked. He was pretty clear about that. With this, steep decline in US power projection is inevitable, I mean you can't lose half a billion big rich western population almost 100% aligned with your values.
- nebula8804 4y ago
  You say that but where are they going to align themselves to? China? The US benefits by having a lack of good competition. Things would have to get extremely bad for the rest of the west to dump the US. Word on the street is that Trump is going to announce a run for 2024 as a way to get ahead of his rivals. He has a reasonable shot at winning barring unforeseen circumstances. You can't dismiss the odds given how incredibly poorly the Democrats have messed up their two years since taking office. I feel that if given another Trump win, the rest of the west will be forced to remain in another holding pattern for four years and suffer whatever consequences occur hoping that four years later things improve.
  - plufz 4y ago
    On the short term that sounds about right. Still I would guess that if the EU and US relations would go from more of a culture friendship to a strict transactional nature that would have big consequences. The EU would try to be more self sufficient and for one import less from the US. The EU would probably try to find closer relations to countries with semi big military, totally guessing here India, South Korea, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey. NATO would of course start to look more shaky and the idea of an EU army more of a possibility. Maybe even a new NATO would form without the US?
    - nebula8804 4y ago
      I could see the EU being more self sufficient. But at the same time it will be difficult given that they have a serious population decline. You need that population to grow the GDP. Furthermore some essential industries seem to be completely abandoned by the EU. (Looking at competitors to the FAANG companies). >The EU would probably try to find closer relations to countries with semi big military, totally guessing here India, South Korea, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey. This is assuming they have the capability to project forces anywhere in the world which given these countries you listed, feels unlikely either now or in the distant future.
deanCommie 4y ago
People talk about the happy and glory years in the US in contrast to what is happening today as if both aren't borne out of the same root cause. When you don't have regulations, strong federal oversight, high taxes, or invest in social programs, then you can have a fucking excellent party nearly all of the time. Until the economy tanks or the American Taliban decides their party involves telling you what you can do with your body. It's a very immature/libertarian way to run a society. Wonderful when things are good. Horrific when things are bad. The stakes are higher than individual hedonism now, though. American Prosperity is boiling our atmosphere and by the end of the century, excess American contributions to carbon emissions will have killed more people in the 3rd world than Hitler and Stalin put together. This is not an exaggeration. Hundreds of millions will die in Bangladesh and India from rising seas and heatwaves because Americans wanted the freedom of the house, the picket fence, the 2 F150s, and the 2 hour commute, and Next Day Shipping From Amazon for All The Things.

saiya-jin 4y ago

Well if Trump or his followers get the top seat again, Ukraine, and with it half of Europe is fucked. He was pretty clear about that. With this, steep decline in US power projection is inevitable, I mean you can't lose half a billion big rich western population almost 100% aligned with your values.

nebula8804 4y ago
You say that but where are they going to align themselves to? China? The US benefits by having a lack of good competition. Things would have to get extremely bad for the rest of the west to dump the US. Word on the street is that Trump is going to announce a run for 2024 as a way to get ahead of his rivals. He has a reasonable shot at winning barring unforeseen circumstances. You can't dismiss the odds given how incredibly poorly the Democrats have messed up their two years since taking office. I feel that if given another Trump win, the rest of the west will be forced to remain in another holding pattern for four years and suffer whatever consequences occur hoping that four years later things improve.
- plufz 4y ago
  On the short term that sounds about right. Still I would guess that if the EU and US relations would go from more of a culture friendship to a strict transactional nature that would have big consequences. The EU would try to be more self sufficient and for one import less from the US. The EU would probably try to find closer relations to countries with semi big military, totally guessing here India, South Korea, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey. NATO would of course start to look more shaky and the idea of an EU army more of a possibility. Maybe even a new NATO would form without the US?
  - nebula8804 4y ago
    I could see the EU being more self sufficient. But at the same time it will be difficult given that they have a serious population decline. You need that population to grow the GDP. Furthermore some essential industries seem to be completely abandoned by the EU. (Looking at competitors to the FAANG companies). >The EU would probably try to find closer relations to countries with semi big military, totally guessing here India, South Korea, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey. This is assuming they have the capability to project forces anywhere in the world which given these countries you listed, feels unlikely either now or in the distant future.

deanCommie 4y ago

People talk about the happy and glory years in the US in contrast to what is happening today as if both aren't borne out of the same root cause. When you don't have regulations, strong federal oversight, high taxes, or invest in social programs, then you can have a fucking excellent party nearly all of the time. Until the economy tanks or the American Taliban decides their party involves telling you what you can do with your body. It's a very immature/libertarian way to run a society. Wonderful when things are good. Horrific when things are bad. The stakes are higher than individual hedonism now, though. American Prosperity is boiling our atmosphere and by the end of the century, excess American contributions to carbon emissions will have killed more people in the 3rd world than Hitler and Stalin put together. This is not an exaggeration. Hundreds of millions will die in Bangladesh and India from rising seas and heatwaves because Americans wanted the freedom of the house, the picket fence, the 2 F150s, and the 2 hour commute, and Next Day Shipping From Amazon for All The Things.