7 ms·

How long does the protection last ? Waning immunity is a thing with Covid, if I observe correctly.

Traubenfuchs 4y ago
Is there any information why this is the case for covid, but not some other vaccines? What makes all the Covid vaccines so very bad at their job? Is it just the mutation speed of covid? e.g. the pox vaccine some people received 50 years ago still seems to protect against monkeypox now and the HPV vaccine also seems to provide long lasting protection ("at least 10 years, probably more").
- rob_c 4y ago
  Clue, look at the general behaviour of all virii within the similar genus. C19 is a new variety, but C-class virii are and have been well researched for decades. And almost every, single, time. C19 is behaving like a new C-class virus with some new symptoms such as a chesty cough and a risk of pneumonic like symptoms in those who have non perfect health. I.e. it's not been bioengineered to kill it be more or less contagious, or cause people to grow a 3rd arm.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    "Virii" is wrong. If it were a thing, it would be the plural of "virius", which isn't a word. "The Latin word "virus" isn't widely attested, and never in the plural. It seems to refer to something like a miasma - that is, a substance, that has no plural. The English word Virus, refering to a particle of an infectious agent, should therefore be treated as an English word, of which the plural form is "viruses". [Edit] There are singular nouns in Latin that end in "-us", which do have a plural form, but that plural form is spelled the same as the singular form. So it's possible that the plural of the Latin "virus" was "virus". But as far as I'm aware, it wasn't a countable noun. Also, if we want "virus" to mean a particle, then it's inconvenient for the plural to also be "virus" - we'd like a notation for referring to multiple particles. [Edit 2] It's worse, isn't it? We refer to the "Covid-19 virus", meaning the global population of that group of strains; the individual strains in the group might then also be referred to as a singular "virus", in the sense in which we might refer to urban air-pollution being caused by "the car". I gave up using words like "stadia" and "referenda" many years ago. I'm afraid I'm very pedantic about language, but I now think those are a sort of back-Latin, and they sound pretentious. "Stadium" and "referendum" are English words now, and the way normal people pluralise them is correct.
    - rob_c 4y ago
      Frankly, I'm sorry, I don't care, or respect the field enough to care. Make some sed command for virii and viruses and read what you like.
      - denton-scratch 4y ago
        Well, I wasn't having a go at you. I just think it's an interesting word; I was throwing some light on its origins, and noting how the word "virii" is used as if it were an import word from Latin, but which never existed in Latin. Your "sed" suggestion is interesting, but there are many abused words that my inner pedant would have to put through the filter. Not all of them are HTML markup. So I envision a kind of "super-sed", that can auto-translate all of my linguistic experience, including text, speech, video, and even road-signs, and make everything nice for me. Neat startup plan: world-changing idea, huge ambition, no detailed explanation of how it works, but hell; fake it till you make it.
        rob_c 4y ago
        Unfortunately given the overton window allowed the definition of "vaccine" to dramatically change within 2 years it's difficult to get worked up on Greek Vs Latin grammar. The battle whilst correct is lost on a youth that prides internet selfies and tiktok.
- kurupt213 4y ago
  I think there’s a reason there were no human corona virus vaccines prior to covid. They hadn’t figured out how to make one that was safe and effective. The only coronavirus vaccine that I’m aware of prior to covid was one for dogs.
- acoard 4y ago
  Consider the flu vaccine. This is one of the most widely used vaccines, and it only lasts for about a year. My understanding is it's due to the rate at which the virus mutates, as you allude. Essentially the flu is different every year, and the vaccines only work against last version as more variants are created. COVID similarly mutates frequently, leading to a similar situation. In contrast, monkeypox and HPV do not mutate frequently leading to variants.

Is there any information why this is the case for covid, but not some other vaccines? What makes all the Covid vaccines so very bad at their job? Is it just the mutation speed of covid? e.g. the pox vaccine some people received 50 years ago still seems to protect against monkeypox now and the HPV vaccine also seems to provide long lasting protection ("at least 10 years, probably more").

rob_c 4y ago
Clue, look at the general behaviour of all virii within the similar genus. C19 is a new variety, but C-class virii are and have been well researched for decades. And almost every, single, time. C19 is behaving like a new C-class virus with some new symptoms such as a chesty cough and a risk of pneumonic like symptoms in those who have non perfect health. I.e. it's not been bioengineered to kill it be more or less contagious, or cause people to grow a 3rd arm.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  "Virii" is wrong. If it were a thing, it would be the plural of "virius", which isn't a word. "The Latin word "virus" isn't widely attested, and never in the plural. It seems to refer to something like a miasma - that is, a substance, that has no plural. The English word Virus, refering to a particle of an infectious agent, should therefore be treated as an English word, of which the plural form is "viruses". [Edit] There are singular nouns in Latin that end in "-us", which do have a plural form, but that plural form is spelled the same as the singular form. So it's possible that the plural of the Latin "virus" was "virus". But as far as I'm aware, it wasn't a countable noun. Also, if we want "virus" to mean a particle, then it's inconvenient for the plural to also be "virus" - we'd like a notation for referring to multiple particles. [Edit 2] It's worse, isn't it? We refer to the "Covid-19 virus", meaning the global population of that group of strains; the individual strains in the group might then also be referred to as a singular "virus", in the sense in which we might refer to urban air-pollution being caused by "the car". I gave up using words like "stadia" and "referenda" many years ago. I'm afraid I'm very pedantic about language, but I now think those are a sort of back-Latin, and they sound pretentious. "Stadium" and "referendum" are English words now, and the way normal people pluralise them is correct.
  - rob_c 4y ago
    Frankly, I'm sorry, I don't care, or respect the field enough to care. Make some sed command for virii and viruses and read what you like.
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      Well, I wasn't having a go at you. I just think it's an interesting word; I was throwing some light on its origins, and noting how the word "virii" is used as if it were an import word from Latin, but which never existed in Latin. Your "sed" suggestion is interesting, but there are many abused words that my inner pedant would have to put through the filter. Not all of them are HTML markup. So I envision a kind of "super-sed", that can auto-translate all of my linguistic experience, including text, speech, video, and even road-signs, and make everything nice for me. Neat startup plan: world-changing idea, huge ambition, no detailed explanation of how it works, but hell; fake it till you make it.
      - rob_c 4y ago
        Unfortunately given the overton window allowed the definition of "vaccine" to dramatically change within 2 years it's difficult to get worked up on Greek Vs Latin grammar. The battle whilst correct is lost on a youth that prides internet selfies and tiktok.
kurupt213 4y ago
I think there’s a reason there were no human corona virus vaccines prior to covid. They hadn’t figured out how to make one that was safe and effective. The only coronavirus vaccine that I’m aware of prior to covid was one for dogs.
acoard 4y ago
Consider the flu vaccine. This is one of the most widely used vaccines, and it only lasts for about a year. My understanding is it's due to the rate at which the virus mutates, as you allude. Essentially the flu is different every year, and the vaccines only work against last version as more variants are created. COVID similarly mutates frequently, leading to a similar situation. In contrast, monkeypox and HPV do not mutate frequently leading to variants.