4 ms·

Is that a right? In the US you have to pay to visit most federal and state parks.

by klipt 4y ago

bombcar 4y ago
Everything's a right these days.
Spivak 4y ago
But if you tried to charge for or otherwise deny access into a city in the US you would be in extremely shaky ground legally.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > if you tried to charge for or otherwise deny access into a city in the US you would be in extremely shaky ground Try to get to Manhattan without paying the city a toll, for a helicopter permit, or a public transit ticket. I'll wait.
  - parkingrift 4y ago
    You can walk or bike across the George Washington bridge. Now you can stop waiting.
  - schoen 4y ago
    https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/infrastructure/bridges.shtml https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/infrastructure/bridges.sh... > NYC DOT owns, operates, and maintains 789 bridges and tunnels throughout New York, including the Brooklyn, Ed Koch Queensboro, Manhattan and Williamsburg Bridges, 24 movable bridges, and four tunnels. There are no tolls on bridges operated by NYC DOT. Some bridges in New York City are operated by other agencies. Also, you can walk across many of the bridges to Manhattan: https://foursquare.com/beelzebibi/list/bridges-to-walk-across--ny https://foursquare.com/beelzebibi/list/bridges-to-walk-acros... Also, if you could get to Staten Island (e.g. by walking over the Goethals Bridge), you could take the Staten Island Ferry to Manhattan for free! https://www.siferry.com/ https://www.siferry.com/
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      First, two points that are less relevant, but I feel like I need to respond to: 1) It might be true that you can get from other boroughs to Manhattan without paying a bridge toll, but getting to those other boroughs without paying a toll along the way is hard. 2) Walking or biking also limits the areas that you can come from Both of these combined are equivalent to Venice's free tickets for people in the surrounding zone. But, in focusing on bridges and tunnels, you missed the important new development in NYC. Manhattan is going to charge people a toll directly for using the streets to drive. I think it's six months old at this point. So, yes, if you live close enough you don't need a car, you can get there. But I challenge a non-NYC resident to do so in a realistic way that doesn't involve mass transit.
      - random314 4y ago
        I see that the goal post has moved.
      - parkingrift 4y ago
        You moved the goalposts across the planet. Manhattan is an island. You can walk or bike across almost every bridge free of charge. If you want to drive into the city you’ll have to pay a one way bridge toll. It’s not a fee per person per day, it’s a one way fee to cross an expensive bridge or tunnel. On the tolling it actually hasn’t happened yet and it’s only applicable south of 60th. Free to drive anywhere in NYC at no additional cost except for the dense traffic riddled area of lower Manhattan. You could also fly directly into NYC and move about by the magic of walking. It’s free. Unfortunately, airfare is also not free and so based on your logic NYC has an airfare surcharge. I recently took a train from Rome to Tuscany. I was outraged that Tuscany charged me a train fee to enter the area.
        HWR_14 4y ago
        How did I move the goalposts? I mentioned mass transit options in my first post. I wasn't aware of the limitations on the tolls inside Manhattan to below 60th. I can see how you may have focused on the bridge/tunnel tolls (and maybe I should have been more explicit), but that's the word they have been using for those charges. > Free to drive anywhere in NYC at no additional cost except for the dense traffic riddled area of lower Manhattan. This is similar to how you are free to go anywhere in the PATREVE metro area except for the dense, canal-filled area of Venice. > Unfortunately, airfare is also not free and so based on your logic NYC has an airfare surcharge. Apparently LGA (unlike JFK or EWR) is considered walkable. I didn't think it was, but it is with 3 hours. AFAIK, unlike tolls and mass transit, no portion of the airfare goes to NYC, nor does NYC have any direct control over the costs. So it's a good counterexample.

Is that a right? In the US you have to pay to visit most federal and state parks.

by klipt 4y ago

Is that a right? In the US you have to pay to visit most federal and state parks.

bombcar 4y ago

Everything's a right these days.

Spivak 4y ago

But if you tried to charge for or otherwise deny access into a city in the US you would be in extremely shaky ground legally.

HWR_14 4y ago
> if you tried to charge for or otherwise deny access into a city in the US you would be in extremely shaky ground Try to get to Manhattan without paying the city a toll, for a helicopter permit, or a public transit ticket. I'll wait.
- parkingrift 4y ago
  You can walk or bike across the George Washington bridge. Now you can stop waiting.
- schoen 4y ago
  https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/infrastructure/bridges.shtml https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/infrastructure/bridges.sh... > NYC DOT owns, operates, and maintains 789 bridges and tunnels throughout New York, including the Brooklyn, Ed Koch Queensboro, Manhattan and Williamsburg Bridges, 24 movable bridges, and four tunnels. There are no tolls on bridges operated by NYC DOT. Some bridges in New York City are operated by other agencies. Also, you can walk across many of the bridges to Manhattan: https://foursquare.com/beelzebibi/list/bridges-to-walk-across--ny https://foursquare.com/beelzebibi/list/bridges-to-walk-acros... Also, if you could get to Staten Island (e.g. by walking over the Goethals Bridge), you could take the Staten Island Ferry to Manhattan for free! https://www.siferry.com/ https://www.siferry.com/
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    First, two points that are less relevant, but I feel like I need to respond to: 1) It might be true that you can get from other boroughs to Manhattan without paying a bridge toll, but getting to those other boroughs without paying a toll along the way is hard. 2) Walking or biking also limits the areas that you can come from Both of these combined are equivalent to Venice's free tickets for people in the surrounding zone. But, in focusing on bridges and tunnels, you missed the important new development in NYC. Manhattan is going to charge people a toll directly for using the streets to drive. I think it's six months old at this point. So, yes, if you live close enough you don't need a car, you can get there. But I challenge a non-NYC resident to do so in a realistic way that doesn't involve mass transit.
    - random314 4y ago
      I see that the goal post has moved.
    - parkingrift 4y ago
      You moved the goalposts across the planet. Manhattan is an island. You can walk or bike across almost every bridge free of charge. If you want to drive into the city you’ll have to pay a one way bridge toll. It’s not a fee per person per day, it’s a one way fee to cross an expensive bridge or tunnel. On the tolling it actually hasn’t happened yet and it’s only applicable south of 60th. Free to drive anywhere in NYC at no additional cost except for the dense traffic riddled area of lower Manhattan. You could also fly directly into NYC and move about by the magic of walking. It’s free. Unfortunately, airfare is also not free and so based on your logic NYC has an airfare surcharge. I recently took a train from Rome to Tuscany. I was outraged that Tuscany charged me a train fee to enter the area.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        How did I move the goalposts? I mentioned mass transit options in my first post. I wasn't aware of the limitations on the tolls inside Manhattan to below 60th. I can see how you may have focused on the bridge/tunnel tolls (and maybe I should have been more explicit), but that's the word they have been using for those charges. > Free to drive anywhere in NYC at no additional cost except for the dense traffic riddled area of lower Manhattan. This is similar to how you are free to go anywhere in the PATREVE metro area except for the dense, canal-filled area of Venice. > Unfortunately, airfare is also not free and so based on your logic NYC has an airfare surcharge. Apparently LGA (unlike JFK or EWR) is considered walkable. I didn't think it was, but it is with 3 hours. AFAIK, unlike tolls and mass transit, no portion of the airfare goes to NYC, nor does NYC have any direct control over the costs. So it's a good counterexample.