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I think this is mostly a good idea. I’ve been to Venice a few times and the best trip was in the middle of February, when the rain and cold scared away summer c

I think this is mostly a good idea. I’ve been to Venice a few times and the best trip was in the middle of February, when the rain and cold scared away summer crowds. However, I do wish that the city managed to retain some of its former glory as a commercial center. It must have been an incredible place in the 13th and 14th centuries, long before tourism economics turned it into a place to visit and not a place to live.

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pm90 4y ago
> It must have been an incredible place in the 13th and 14th centuries, long before tourism economics turned it into a place to visit and not a place to live. Trade routes and power centers were so different then, a different world. It likely will never reach that level of prosperity through non-tourism based economy. In a way, it’s probably for the best. Italy doesn’t have a rapidly expanding population that needs more housing or denser urban centers. Freezing the cities as they are (and funding more research and archaeological digs) is probably the best outcome. I guess it must suck as a resident though.
jhugo 4y ago
I spent a few weeks one January staying with friends who live there, many years ago. Winter is definitely the best time to visit Venice. It's an unforgettable atmosphere walking around at night, with a bit of mist above the canals and hardly anyone around. There is still a decently-sized resident population, mostly not noticed by the tourists, and even in summer you don't have to go far from the most popular areas to find areas, bars and restaurants that are mostly missed by the cruise ship hordes. I do worry that selling tickets basically legitimises the cruise ship hordes (and their behaviour, which isn't always very sociable) while perhaps discouraging casual independent travelers.
carlob 4y ago
For anyone reading this and thinking of planning a trip to Venice in February, be aware that the Carnival often is in February and that's one of the busiest times...
jacquesm 4y ago
Amsterdam stopped being a place to live two decades ago. I remember wanting to leave my house there and could not because of the crowds right outside my door and ended up pretty much locked in. It's the day I decided that I'm done with the city I was born in. If you take out the drunks the drugs and the tourists (and associated crime) house prices will drop back to something normal (10000 euros / square meter right now) and it might become a livable city again.
- abelaer 4y ago
  I live and grew up around the Nieuwmarkt, and completely disagree with this take. Sure, it is expensive, and sure, there are quite some tourists, but it is extremely liveable and nowhere near Venice levels.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Compared to Almere it's great... but there are many options besides Amsterdam that don't come with all the drawbacks, and cheaper to boot, especially if you have kids. If you're single and like nightlife then I can see the draw, but otherwise it no longer is for me. But it's fine, I live 20 minutes away (Baarn) and have the advantages when I need them without the disadvantages.
- Thervicarl 4y ago
  Amsterdam seems to have gotten better thanks to the pandemic. I go there on a regular basis to visit relatives with kids so I mostly visit parks and playgrounds and the drastic reduction of "bachelor party" type of tourists (coming for alcohol, drugs and prostitutes) has made the city a lot more pleasant to wander around. Residents seem to have come to the same realization as it looks like they are going to outlaw selling drugs to tourists and move the red light district out of the city. That being said, as long as there is still the museum/culture tourism and the many wealthy expatriates coming for the quality of life, I do not see the prices dropping back enough to make a difference for regular/local people.
  - jacquesm 4y ago

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pm90 4y ago

> It must have been an incredible place in the 13th and 14th centuries, long before tourism economics turned it into a place to visit and not a place to live. Trade routes and power centers were so different then, a different world. It likely will never reach that level of prosperity through non-tourism based economy. In a way, it’s probably for the best. Italy doesn’t have a rapidly expanding population that needs more housing or denser urban centers. Freezing the cities as they are (and funding more research and archaeological digs) is probably the best outcome. I guess it must suck as a resident though.

jhugo 4y ago

I spent a few weeks one January staying with friends who live there, many years ago. Winter is definitely the best time to visit Venice. It's an unforgettable atmosphere walking around at night, with a bit of mist above the canals and hardly anyone around. There is still a decently-sized resident population, mostly not noticed by the tourists, and even in summer you don't have to go far from the most popular areas to find areas, bars and restaurants that are mostly missed by the cruise ship hordes. I do worry that selling tickets basically legitimises the cruise ship hordes (and their behaviour, which isn't always very sociable) while perhaps discouraging casual independent travelers.

carlob 4y ago

For anyone reading this and thinking of planning a trip to Venice in February, be aware that the Carnival often is in February and that's one of the busiest times...

jacquesm 4y ago

Amsterdam stopped being a place to live two decades ago. I remember wanting to leave my house there and could not because of the crowds right outside my door and ended up pretty much locked in. It's the day I decided that I'm done with the city I was born in. If you take out the drunks the drugs and the tourists (and associated crime) house prices will drop back to something normal (10000 euros / square meter right now) and it might become a livable city again.

abelaer 4y ago
I live and grew up around the Nieuwmarkt, and completely disagree with this take. Sure, it is expensive, and sure, there are quite some tourists, but it is extremely liveable and nowhere near Venice levels.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Compared to Almere it's great... but there are many options besides Amsterdam that don't come with all the drawbacks, and cheaper to boot, especially if you have kids. If you're single and like nightlife then I can see the draw, but otherwise it no longer is for me. But it's fine, I live 20 minutes away (Baarn) and have the advantages when I need them without the disadvantages.
Thervicarl 4y ago
Amsterdam seems to have gotten better thanks to the pandemic. I go there on a regular basis to visit relatives with kids so I mostly visit parks and playgrounds and the drastic reduction of "bachelor party" type of tourists (coming for alcohol, drugs and prostitutes) has made the city a lot more pleasant to wander around. Residents seem to have come to the same realization as it looks like they are going to outlaw selling drugs to tourists and move the red light district out of the city. That being said, as long as there is still the museum/culture tourism and the many wealthy expatriates coming for the quality of life, I do not see the prices dropping back enough to make a difference for regular/local people.
- jacquesm 4y ago