6 ms·

>So I guess I should shop around by moving cities No, the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor. If you are poor, stop it. Then you

>So I guess I should shop around by moving cities No, the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor. If you are poor, stop it. Then you don't have to worry about any of this. Consider abortion, a procedure now outlawed in many US states. If you're not poor, you can just pay to travel to another state or country, have the procedure, do some sight-seeing, and come home. The law has no de facto effect on you. Same with every aspect of healthcare. So, just don't be poor and you'll be fine. (Even better if you are connected to the wealthy and powerful in your city & state. It is very nice indeed to be a VIP in an American hospital, court, or anywhere else.)

gumby 4y ago
> No, the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor. If you are poor, stop it. Those people deserve it. I mean, some people chose to be born to wealthy parents; if you were too lazy to do that why should I have to reward your laziness by paying to look after you? Really, some people can be so selfish! > It is very nice indeed to be a VIP in an American hospital My gf had a life threatening illness and went to Stanford hospital. They gave her the special blanket just for Stanford Faculty so she'd get the VIP treatment. Which in practice meant nothing. Thankfully she survived; now I wonder if I should be glad or not that VIPs get the same shitty health care there as everybody else.
- javajosh 4y ago
  VIP treatment means a private room and doctors who personally really actually pay attention to your treatment because the administrator has reminded them to do that, or your friend from med school/business school has asked them to do that. It is not conferred by a blanket. BTW there is a carrot and a stick going on. Yes, the hospital admin wants to make VIP patients happy for donations, but they also want to avoid making the patient unhappy because they have resources to sue, and win. All of this is highly motivational.
  - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
    I don't really think the Mr/Mrs Moneybags "VIP patient" compares remotely to a board-certified member of La Cosa Nostra Medical Mafia with an iphone full of colleagues and professional acquaintances with a friend-of-an-attending across all specialties When you are a doctor, you're part of the club. Skipping the line and getting a consult in 30 seconds? Well, that is 15 seconds too long. Got a laceration on your child, and want a 3 layer closure by the head of Plastics? No issue there. Want to convene a board on your rare medical issue? Well, there is a doctors only Facebook group for that, with about 500 docs ready to chime in on their breaks. It goes way behind this too. Indepth knowledge and advice about who the actual locally best doctors and surgeons are, across specialties (not the popularity contest or bought magazine ones either). Early tracks on new promising studies. Handouts of non-scrip medical supplies like event swag. Pharma-reps wanting to market their novel products and spread the info on them. The amount of free stuff is off the charts. I've seen exponentially more over the top professional courtesy "Good Old Docs" club from my Dr. wife and the associated professional network, than I have in any other profession by far.
GiorgioG 4y ago
The other solution is simply not to be sick. If you're sick, stop it. Welcome to America.
leeoniya 4y ago
cancer treatment costs can make anyone poor. just sayin'
- phonon 4y ago
  That's why AFLAC offers cancer insurance. https://www.aflac.com/individuals/products/cancer-insurance.aspx https://www.aflac.com/individuals/products/cancer-insurance....
  - arealaccount 4y ago
    Probably you still be broke > The out-of-pocket expenses displayed are estimated at 40% of the total medical cost, assuming that average major medical plans cover approximately 60% of the expense. Your major medical coverage may be more or less, and if an individual or family incurs expenses for non-covered benefits, these out-of-pocket expenses may increase potential unexpected costs. You will also need to pay for any limits or exclusions on your benefits which may include the number of refills for certain drugs, visits to certain specialists, or days covered for certain benefits.
  - zeusk 4y ago
    Do they offer poverty insurance?
  - drdaeman 4y ago
    How do I figure out if I need something like this and how well my current insurance covers me? I'm trying to find a case study but nothing turns up. A story - someone got a major injury, cancer, or other life-threatening hard/impossible-to-cure condition, and how exactly the events had unfolded financially. I.e. how many tens of millions the treatments were worth, how much insurance had covered, and how much was still left to pay and why. So maybe I could see what my insurance covers and see if I need another insurance to fill some obvious gaps. All that my naive search attempts produce are mentions about people without coverage or with insufficient cheap coverage, which is a problem but a different one from what I'm trying to research. Oh, yes, and lots of mentions of out-of-network ambulance drives' crazy costs - I get this one.
  - 4y ago
cyanydeez 4y ago
Or don't be racist and rebuild the social safety net Americans desocialized because of equal rights.
- bitcharmer 4y ago
  What does racism has to do with broken medical health care system in the US?
  - cyanydeez 4y ago
    Privatization since the 60s is a reaction to equal rights and "welfare queens"
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor American healthcare works well if you have money and better than anywhere else in the world if you have money and a chronic condition. If you get in an accident, however, particularly while away from your posh neighbourhood, you’re getting the same overworked, hyper-indebted surgeon as the homeless man. (If you’re a billionaire or head of state, that’s different, but that’s different everywhere.)
- javajosh 4y ago
  This might be true initially. But such people have networks who know people, pull strings, and move them pretty quickly to "the best" hospital in the area. You know, the Mayo Clinics, the Johns Hopkins, the Cedar Sinais of the world. It makes the hospitals happy, too because they run fundraisers and happy rich patients tend to give a lot, for just this reason.
- mushbino 4y ago
  Not just if you have money. If you have a lot of money. The majority of the country is one major accident away from being completely wiped out. It's the number one cause of bankruptcy. I had an emergency this year within a very tiny insurance gap between employers and now all of my savings and retirement are gone. I'm really not sure who it works out better for versus universal healthcare, but I can't imagine it's a whole lot.
  - zrail 4y ago
    Was retroactively electing cobra not an option for some reason?
    - mushbino 4y ago
      Longer story, but the timing of the emergency and recovery period fell within an ineligibility window for COBRA. My previous insurance company wouldn't have covered it anyway. It was the worst Blue Shield plan that I didn't even know could be legal. Also, I got the first few bills, was like okay, I'll just pay these off and move on and not even bother. These were the only bills I could find in their patient portal at the time. Then I got hit with the massive ones that made my head spin. By that time I had started at my new employer, my new insurance hadn't kicked in and I was outside of the COBRA window, not that it would have covered it anyway. From now on I'm making sure I have good insurance, which requires a crazy amount of due diligence, but not something I'll take for granted anymore. It's one of reasons I'm currently trying to move to another country. Quality of healthcare is important, but how much does it matter if you're in massive debt, lost nearly everything, and don't have a retirement anymore?
spaetzleesser 4y ago
"No, the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor. If you are poor, stop " In healthcare not being poor is sufficient. You actually have to be quite well off in order to not worry about cost.
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  Yes! My salary is twice the local average and still worry a medical event could wipeout my life savings.
  - Wistar 4y ago
    Me. too.
  - ac29 4y ago
    There are annual out of pocket maximums. Mine is something like $7000 last I checked. Its a lot of money, but not an amount that would bankrupt most people.
    - BigRedDog1669 4y ago
      I always wonder about those. Are they real? Or will insurance companies find exclusions or ways to mark things as out of network and the maximums don't apply?
      - micromacrofoot 4y ago
        Right, my insurance company tries to weasel out of paying for things all the time. I have zero confidence in the maximums.
    - spaetzleesser 4y ago
      Talk to somebody who has a chronic illness or multi year cancer. There are plenty ways to charge people way more than their out of pocket maximums. People also get worn down by constant mistakes and weird bureaucratic hurdles by hospitals and insurance.
flatline 4y ago
I think the abortion case is more problematic than this. The laws raise a high barrier to entry, not just financial, but logistical and social. You can leave to get an abortion if you have the money, but there will be a fine on you, and you have to make travel arrangements for a very uncomfortable medical procedure. Poor people still have other, riskier options available.
nostromo 4y ago
> the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor No, the solution is to be either poor or well off. The lower middle class are the people that have the most to worry about in the US healthcare system.

gumby 4y ago

> No, the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor. If you are poor, stop it. Those people deserve it. I mean, some people chose to be born to wealthy parents; if you were too lazy to do that why should I have to reward your laziness by paying to look after you? Really, some people can be so selfish! > It is very nice indeed to be a VIP in an American hospital My gf had a life threatening illness and went to Stanford hospital. They gave her the special blanket just for Stanford Faculty so she'd get the VIP treatment. Which in practice meant nothing. Thankfully she survived; now I wonder if I should be glad or not that VIPs get the same shitty health care there as everybody else.

javajosh 4y ago
VIP treatment means a private room and doctors who personally really actually pay attention to your treatment because the administrator has reminded them to do that, or your friend from med school/business school has asked them to do that. It is not conferred by a blanket. BTW there is a carrot and a stick going on. Yes, the hospital admin wants to make VIP patients happy for donations, but they also want to avoid making the patient unhappy because they have resources to sue, and win. All of this is highly motivational.
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
  I don't really think the Mr/Mrs Moneybags "VIP patient" compares remotely to a board-certified member of La Cosa Nostra Medical Mafia with an iphone full of colleagues and professional acquaintances with a friend-of-an-attending across all specialties When you are a doctor, you're part of the club. Skipping the line and getting a consult in 30 seconds? Well, that is 15 seconds too long. Got a laceration on your child, and want a 3 layer closure by the head of Plastics? No issue there. Want to convene a board on your rare medical issue? Well, there is a doctors only Facebook group for that, with about 500 docs ready to chime in on their breaks. It goes way behind this too. Indepth knowledge and advice about who the actual locally best doctors and surgeons are, across specialties (not the popularity contest or bought magazine ones either). Early tracks on new promising studies. Handouts of non-scrip medical supplies like event swag. Pharma-reps wanting to market their novel products and spread the info on them. The amount of free stuff is off the charts. I've seen exponentially more over the top professional courtesy "Good Old Docs" club from my Dr. wife and the associated professional network, than I have in any other profession by far.

GiorgioG 4y ago

The other solution is simply not to be sick. If you're sick, stop it. Welcome to America.

leeoniya 4y ago

cancer treatment costs can make anyone poor. just sayin'

phonon 4y ago
That's why AFLAC offers cancer insurance. https://www.aflac.com/individuals/products/cancer-insurance.aspx https://www.aflac.com/individuals/products/cancer-insurance....
- arealaccount 4y ago
  Probably you still be broke > The out-of-pocket expenses displayed are estimated at 40% of the total medical cost, assuming that average major medical plans cover approximately 60% of the expense. Your major medical coverage may be more or less, and if an individual or family incurs expenses for non-covered benefits, these out-of-pocket expenses may increase potential unexpected costs. You will also need to pay for any limits or exclusions on your benefits which may include the number of refills for certain drugs, visits to certain specialists, or days covered for certain benefits.
- zeusk 4y ago
  Do they offer poverty insurance?
- drdaeman 4y ago
  How do I figure out if I need something like this and how well my current insurance covers me? I'm trying to find a case study but nothing turns up. A story - someone got a major injury, cancer, or other life-threatening hard/impossible-to-cure condition, and how exactly the events had unfolded financially. I.e. how many tens of millions the treatments were worth, how much insurance had covered, and how much was still left to pay and why. So maybe I could see what my insurance covers and see if I need another insurance to fill some obvious gaps. All that my naive search attempts produce are mentions about people without coverage or with insufficient cheap coverage, which is a problem but a different one from what I'm trying to research. Oh, yes, and lots of mentions of out-of-network ambulance drives' crazy costs - I get this one.
- 4y ago

cyanydeez 4y ago

Or don't be racist and rebuild the social safety net Americans desocialized because of equal rights.

bitcharmer 4y ago
What does racism has to do with broken medical health care system in the US?
- cyanydeez 4y ago
  Privatization since the 60s is a reaction to equal rights and "welfare queens"

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor American healthcare works well if you have money and better than anywhere else in the world if you have money and a chronic condition. If you get in an accident, however, particularly while away from your posh neighbourhood, you’re getting the same overworked, hyper-indebted surgeon as the homeless man. (If you’re a billionaire or head of state, that’s different, but that’s different everywhere.)

javajosh 4y ago
This might be true initially. But such people have networks who know people, pull strings, and move them pretty quickly to "the best" hospital in the area. You know, the Mayo Clinics, the Johns Hopkins, the Cedar Sinais of the world. It makes the hospitals happy, too because they run fundraisers and happy rich patients tend to give a lot, for just this reason.
mushbino 4y ago
Not just if you have money. If you have a lot of money. The majority of the country is one major accident away from being completely wiped out. It's the number one cause of bankruptcy. I had an emergency this year within a very tiny insurance gap between employers and now all of my savings and retirement are gone. I'm really not sure who it works out better for versus universal healthcare, but I can't imagine it's a whole lot.
- zrail 4y ago
  Was retroactively electing cobra not an option for some reason?
  - mushbino 4y ago
    Longer story, but the timing of the emergency and recovery period fell within an ineligibility window for COBRA. My previous insurance company wouldn't have covered it anyway. It was the worst Blue Shield plan that I didn't even know could be legal. Also, I got the first few bills, was like okay, I'll just pay these off and move on and not even bother. These were the only bills I could find in their patient portal at the time. Then I got hit with the massive ones that made my head spin. By that time I had started at my new employer, my new insurance hadn't kicked in and I was outside of the COBRA window, not that it would have covered it anyway. From now on I'm making sure I have good insurance, which requires a crazy amount of due diligence, but not something I'll take for granted anymore. It's one of reasons I'm currently trying to move to another country. Quality of healthcare is important, but how much does it matter if you're in massive debt, lost nearly everything, and don't have a retirement anymore?

spaetzleesser 4y ago

"No, the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor. If you are poor, stop " In healthcare not being poor is sufficient. You actually have to be quite well off in order to not worry about cost.

micromacrofoot 4y ago
Yes! My salary is twice the local average and still worry a medical event could wipeout my life savings.
- Wistar 4y ago
  Me. too.
- ac29 4y ago
  There are annual out of pocket maximums. Mine is something like $7000 last I checked. Its a lot of money, but not an amount that would bankrupt most people.
  - BigRedDog1669 4y ago
    I always wonder about those. Are they real? Or will insurance companies find exclusions or ways to mark things as out of network and the maximums don't apply?
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago
      Right, my insurance company tries to weasel out of paying for things all the time. I have zero confidence in the maximums.
  - spaetzleesser 4y ago
    Talk to somebody who has a chronic illness or multi year cancer. There are plenty ways to charge people way more than their out of pocket maximums. People also get worn down by constant mistakes and weird bureaucratic hurdles by hospitals and insurance.

flatline 4y ago

I think the abortion case is more problematic than this. The laws raise a high barrier to entry, not just financial, but logistical and social. You can leave to get an abortion if you have the money, but there will be a fine on you, and you have to make travel arrangements for a very uncomfortable medical procedure. Poor people still have other, riskier options available.

nostromo 4y ago

> the solution to most social ills in America is to simply not be poor No, the solution is to be either poor or well off. The lower middle class are the people that have the most to worry about in the US healthcare system.