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It's an extremely difficult problem indeed. A lot of people on the team speak low-resource languages too (my native language as well!), so definitely resonate w

It's an extremely difficult problem indeed. A lot of people on the team speak low-resource languages too (my native language as well!), so definitely resonate with what you're saying. My overall feeling is: yeah it's hard, and after decades we can't even do German translation perfectly. But if we don't work on it, it's not gonna happen. I really hope that people who are excited about technology for more languages can use what we've open sourced.

azinman2 4y ago
> But if we don't work on it, it's not gonna happen. That’s exactly right. There’s too much bias in society that if something isn’t perfect, then why bother? Nothing is perfect, so with that attitude there can be no progress. Thank you for doing important work!
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Personally I'm hoping that globalisation prunes out as many languages as possible before we end up with brain implants automatically translating everything for us and no one can communicate without these chips.
  - pmontra 4y ago
    Becoming bilingual is one thing. Completely extinguishing a language is a totally different matter. It is usually associated with migrating away from the geographic area of the language and/or physically losing speakers (old age, wars, genocides, etc.) You can check the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_time_of_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_time_of_e... To make an example and be blunt: I do not expect any European country official language to get extinct anytime during our lifespan unless that country gets destroyed, which obviously won't be a good thing. As for brain implants, I won't hold my breath.
    - mellavora 4y ago
      So, Ukrainian?
    - cyphar 4y ago
      There are several reasons a language can go extinct, and while the reasons you mentioned are included there are several other reasons that you didn't consider. The most common way language death occurs is through contact with a prestige language, which results in social pressure that makes the non-prestige language become less and less commonly spoken[1]. A community becoming bilingual is part of this process -- it doesn't always result in language death, but it is an early stage of that form of language death. As for a European country official language (strange line to draw), Icelandic is already in a state where younger Icelandic natives speak to each other in English because smartphones do not support their native language. It is entirely possible that Icelandic will be in danger of extinction this century[2]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3qbYFvOHwk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3qbYFvOHwk [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/world/europe/iceland-icelandic-language-linguistics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/world/europe/iceland-icel...
      - raverbashing 4y ago
        Icelandic won't disappear soon. (it's a bit of a mistake to say latin disappeared but I digress) It might take some work (and more media being produced in it, surely) but I don't think it's at risk > because smartphones do not support their native language Nowhere in the article says that. And most smartphones do even have support (including the Icelandic keyboard) what is not supported is voice activated devices: > "“Not being able to speak Icelandic to voice-activated fridges, interactive robots and similar devices would be yet another lost field,"
        yakak 4y ago
        By your criteria no language that has survived to now will disappear without a major global calamity. Effectively, latin is a not a language for a native speaker that wants to go through their life and leave future native speakers. Regarding Icelandic, I know little about it except that it has a lot of non-ANSI if written properly. I already know many latin language dialect speakers that developed their behavior when the limits of SMS unicode were significantly smaller than ANSI, with long term repercussions. I'm not sure why facts like that would need to be in the article to discuss here?
  - eCa 4y ago
    > prunes out as many languages as possible Would you feel the same way if that includes all languages you know, including all versions of English?
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      Yes, I’d be happy to learn a new language if it was the step to one unified language. Of course there is no way to back that up since it will never happen but I at least assume I’d do it if that was the case.
      - cyphar 4y ago
        Would you not feel even slightly unhappy that your children (or grandchildren) would not be able to read the original versions of Shakespeare, Dickens, or Austen or that they wouldn't be able to watch the original versions of movies and shows you've enjoyed? They would only be able to watch and read translations, and all of the linguistic artistry would be lost to them. It's not just about becoming bilingual, a population becoming bilingual in a "prestige language" is the first stage of language death (though of course it doesn't /always/ lead to language death).
        Gigachad 4y ago
        No not really. English has shifted so far that those works are hardly as understandable now as a modern translated work.
        cyphar 4y ago
        That isn't the case for every language, I'm just trying to come up with an equivalent explanation of why wishing for languages to die out is a bad thing.
    - adrianN 4y ago
      I'm still a bit disappointed that Esperanto isn't the official language of the EU.
  - pegasus 4y ago
    That's a silly thing to wish for: like wishing global warming kills off as many species of animals as possible, in order to simplify zoology.
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azinman2 4y ago

> But if we don't work on it, it's not gonna happen. That’s exactly right. There’s too much bias in society that if something isn’t perfect, then why bother? Nothing is perfect, so with that attitude there can be no progress. Thank you for doing important work!

Gigachad 4y ago
Personally I'm hoping that globalisation prunes out as many languages as possible before we end up with brain implants automatically translating everything for us and no one can communicate without these chips.
- pmontra 4y ago
  Becoming bilingual is one thing. Completely extinguishing a language is a totally different matter. It is usually associated with migrating away from the geographic area of the language and/or physically losing speakers (old age, wars, genocides, etc.) You can check the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_time_of_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_time_of_e... To make an example and be blunt: I do not expect any European country official language to get extinct anytime during our lifespan unless that country gets destroyed, which obviously won't be a good thing. As for brain implants, I won't hold my breath.
  - mellavora 4y ago
    So, Ukrainian?
  - cyphar 4y ago
    There are several reasons a language can go extinct, and while the reasons you mentioned are included there are several other reasons that you didn't consider. The most common way language death occurs is through contact with a prestige language, which results in social pressure that makes the non-prestige language become less and less commonly spoken[1]. A community becoming bilingual is part of this process -- it doesn't always result in language death, but it is an early stage of that form of language death. As for a European country official language (strange line to draw), Icelandic is already in a state where younger Icelandic natives speak to each other in English because smartphones do not support their native language. It is entirely possible that Icelandic will be in danger of extinction this century[2]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3qbYFvOHwk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3qbYFvOHwk [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/world/europe/iceland-icelandic-language-linguistics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/world/europe/iceland-icel...
    - raverbashing 4y ago
      Icelandic won't disappear soon. (it's a bit of a mistake to say latin disappeared but I digress) It might take some work (and more media being produced in it, surely) but I don't think it's at risk > because smartphones do not support their native language Nowhere in the article says that. And most smartphones do even have support (including the Icelandic keyboard) what is not supported is voice activated devices: > "“Not being able to speak Icelandic to voice-activated fridges, interactive robots and similar devices would be yet another lost field,"
      - yakak 4y ago
        By your criteria no language that has survived to now will disappear without a major global calamity. Effectively, latin is a not a language for a native speaker that wants to go through their life and leave future native speakers. Regarding Icelandic, I know little about it except that it has a lot of non-ANSI if written properly. I already know many latin language dialect speakers that developed their behavior when the limits of SMS unicode were significantly smaller than ANSI, with long term repercussions. I'm not sure why facts like that would need to be in the article to discuss here?
- eCa 4y ago
  > prunes out as many languages as possible Would you feel the same way if that includes all languages you know, including all versions of English?
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Yes, I’d be happy to learn a new language if it was the step to one unified language. Of course there is no way to back that up since it will never happen but I at least assume I’d do it if that was the case.
    - cyphar 4y ago
      Would you not feel even slightly unhappy that your children (or grandchildren) would not be able to read the original versions of Shakespeare, Dickens, or Austen or that they wouldn't be able to watch the original versions of movies and shows you've enjoyed? They would only be able to watch and read translations, and all of the linguistic artistry would be lost to them. It's not just about becoming bilingual, a population becoming bilingual in a "prestige language" is the first stage of language death (though of course it doesn't /always/ lead to language death).
      - Gigachad 4y ago
        No not really. English has shifted so far that those works are hardly as understandable now as a modern translated work.
        cyphar 4y ago
        That isn't the case for every language, I'm just trying to come up with an equivalent explanation of why wishing for languages to die out is a bad thing.
  - adrianN 4y ago
    I'm still a bit disappointed that Esperanto isn't the official language of the EU.
- pegasus 4y ago
  That's a silly thing to wish for: like wishing global warming kills off as many species of animals as possible, in order to simplify zoology.
- deleted 4y ago
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