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Ask HN: Do mRNA vaccines need to be tested when updated to handle variants?

10 points by amichail 4y ago

And if so, why? Won't the updated vaccines also be safe (though perhaps not as effective as desired)? What if there isn't enough time for testing?

wmf 4y ago
Moderna is doing clinical trials on updated versions of their vaccine: https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/Moderna-Announces-Bivalent-Booster-mRNA-1273.214-Demonstrates-Potent-Neutralizing-Antibody-Response-Against-Omicron-Subvariants-BA.4-And-BA.5/default.aspx https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/Moder... https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/Moderna-Announces-Omicron-Containing-Bivalent-Booster-Candidate-mRNA-1273.214-Demonstrates-Superior-Antibody-Response-Against-Omicron/default.aspx https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/Moder... However the FDA has said that they may not require trials for new versions of the vaccines to get them out faster.
- xupybd 4y ago
  If software development has taught me anything, it's that skipping testing is dangerous.
Trouble_007 4y ago
FYI; Covid-19 Vaccines Candidates in Clinical Trials : https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/ https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/
smt88 4y ago
> And if so, why? Won't the updated vaccines also be safe (though perhaps not as effective as desired)? Mostly because they need to be effective before they're mass-produced and recommended to the public. Giving people an ineffective treatment is wasteful and unethical.
tommywiseausmom 4y ago
just give it to me, right in my veins
- Vecr 4y ago
  Don't put it into your veins, that's probably not safe. It says "intramuscular injection only" on the label. Don't try anything else unless you are trying to make the vaccine not work, give you myocarditis, or both.
tmaly 4y ago
Are they not analogous to code for species? How do you feel about releasing mission critical code without testing?
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Ask HN: Do mRNA vaccines need to be tested when updated to handle variants? Yes. > And if so, why? Safety, efficacy. > Won't the updated vaccines also be safe Probably. > (though perhaps not as effective as desired)? That's kind of important. Safety isn't binary, and efficacy plays a factor in what safety is minimally acceptable. > What if there isn't enough time for testing? Then we need to use what we know about the process to estimate the cost/benefit of skipping, or further limiting, testing to get things out faster. But probably that still means testing happens, but an EUA might be earlier in the process.
stevenalowe 4y ago
“We can test in production…”

10 points by amichail 4y ago

And if so, why? Won't the updated vaccines also be safe (though perhaps not as effective as desired)? What if there isn't enough time for testing?

wmf 4y ago

Moderna is doing clinical trials on updated versions of their vaccine: https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/Moderna-Announces-Bivalent-Booster-mRNA-1273.214-Demonstrates-Potent-Neutralizing-Antibody-Response-Against-Omicron-Subvariants-BA.4-And-BA.5/default.aspx https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/Moder... https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/Moderna-Announces-Omicron-Containing-Bivalent-Booster-Candidate-mRNA-1273.214-Demonstrates-Superior-Antibody-Response-Against-Omicron/default.aspx https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/Moder... However the FDA has said that they may not require trials for new versions of the vaccines to get them out faster.

xupybd 4y ago
If software development has taught me anything, it's that skipping testing is dangerous.

Trouble_007 4y ago

FYI; Covid-19 Vaccines Candidates in Clinical Trials : https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/ https://covid19.trackvaccines.org/vaccines/

smt88 4y ago

> And if so, why? Won't the updated vaccines also be safe (though perhaps not as effective as desired)? Mostly because they need to be effective before they're mass-produced and recommended to the public. Giving people an ineffective treatment is wasteful and unethical.

tommywiseausmom 4y ago

just give it to me, right in my veins

Vecr 4y ago
Don't put it into your veins, that's probably not safe. It says "intramuscular injection only" on the label. Don't try anything else unless you are trying to make the vaccine not work, give you myocarditis, or both.

tmaly 4y ago

Are they not analogous to code for species? How do you feel about releasing mission critical code without testing?

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Ask HN: Do mRNA vaccines need to be tested when updated to handle variants? Yes. > And if so, why? Safety, efficacy. > Won't the updated vaccines also be safe Probably. > (though perhaps not as effective as desired)? That's kind of important. Safety isn't binary, and efficacy plays a factor in what safety is minimally acceptable. > What if there isn't enough time for testing? Then we need to use what we know about the process to estimate the cost/benefit of skipping, or further limiting, testing to get things out faster. But probably that still means testing happens, but an EUA might be earlier in the process.

stevenalowe 4y ago

“We can test in production…”