4 ms·

Wouldn't the mouthwash need abrasive particles as well? Part of why Listerine doesn't replace brushing and flossing is because it has a much smaller mechanical

Wouldn't the mouthwash need abrasive particles as well? Part of why Listerine doesn't replace brushing and flossing is because it has a much smaller mechanical component in the washing process. The physical rubbing of bristles and wire through and around the teeth creates the physical abrasion that is necessary to remove large films of plaque. I imagine without any sort of abrasive, the liquid would need to be dangerously strong to remove tougher plaque.

Retric 4y ago
Preventing plaque formation avoids the need to remove it. Actually accomplishing that seems unlikely, but not impossible.
- klipt 4y ago
  A keto diet without sugar or starch should prevent most plaque formation, shouldn't it?
  - Retric 4y ago
    No, a balanced keto diet might be moderately better than a normal diet in terms of plaque, but even wild cats living on a nearly 100% meat diet still get dental plaque.
    - trhway 4y ago
      reminded - our cat was flossing his teeth using the corn broom that we had. He would press the broom with his paw and would byte a fiber close to the broom root and would move his head away so that the fiber would be flossing the teeth, and he would repeat it multiple times flossing different teeth. Still had perfect teeth at 13 when the cancer took him.
- rhinoceraptor 4y ago
  There has been work done is creating GM S. mutans that don't produce biofilms, and that would replace your native S. mutans. It could be done by just brushing your teeth with a toothbrush treated with the bacteria so it would cost pennies per treatment.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Retric 4y ago
    That’s a long way from actually replacing brushing and flossing. For one thing, streptococcus sobrinus is more closely associated with cavity formation than streptococcus mutans. But more importantly these biofilms are a significant evolutionary advantage so this replacement is an unstable situation. Some positive benefits are likely, just don’t assume it can work alone.
    - arrosenberg 4y ago
      Biofilms are an evolutionary advantage for the bacteria, not the host. Biofilms make the colony much, much harder to kill. How advantageous can it be to the host anyways, if 4 out of 5 dentists recommends obliterating it 2-3x a day?
      - dataangel 4y ago
        They may indirectly be an advantage for the host because if the bacteria aren't competitive they will get replaced by bacteria that are. The devil you know...
        arrosenberg 4y ago
        I hear you, but again - the strongly recommended medical advice is to brush your teeth twice a day to remove bacteria before they can form a biofilm, so if that was true, you would expect to see people who brush their teeth have worse problems from advantageous bacteria.
      - Retric 4y ago
        This is trying to replace the bacteria population not the host. It’s like trying to stop drug use by busting drug dealers. As long as the niche exists a city can’t stop and say we caught all the bad guys problem is solved.
godelski 4y ago
Yes. Talk to your dental hygienist and they will confirm this. Mine told me a story recently of when she was in school they were graded on how little plaque they had on their teeth. So her and all her friends did everything they could. New toothbrushes, flossing, the metal scrapers, and helping each other. No one removed everything and I guess that's the point of the lesson. Plaque builds up quickly and over time. What harms teeth and gums is far more than microbes. But that also seems like where nanobots would come in. If you could have a mouth wash that had nanobots that would perform that abrasive scrubbing and then decay (and not leave byproducts) then it would help and could replace brushing and flossing. But definitely mouthwash is nowhere near the effectiveness of brushing nor flossing. Would be a cool future, but I suspect we're still a long way from that.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Crest Total Robot Remover. Removes 10% more nanobot particles!
  - paranoidrobot 4y ago
    From some time in the future: > Please confirm you accept our terms of service before using Crest(tm) Total Robot Remover(sm) > Crest Total Robot Remover may gather my personal data, including DNA, RNA, and other identifying biometrics. > Crest may share my personal data with other third parties, including affiliated Health Insurance, Government and our trusted affiliates. > Crest's affiliated partners may perform analysis of my DNA, and any identifiable food or drink particles for the purpose of sending me offers. > You may choose to opt-out of this program at any time by sending 100 points of identifying documents, as well as a DNA sample to <PO BOX>.

Retric 4y ago

Preventing plaque formation avoids the need to remove it. Actually accomplishing that seems unlikely, but not impossible.

klipt 4y ago
A keto diet without sugar or starch should prevent most plaque formation, shouldn't it?
- Retric 4y ago
  No, a balanced keto diet might be moderately better than a normal diet in terms of plaque, but even wild cats living on a nearly 100% meat diet still get dental plaque.
  - trhway 4y ago
    reminded - our cat was flossing his teeth using the corn broom that we had. He would press the broom with his paw and would byte a fiber close to the broom root and would move his head away so that the fiber would be flossing the teeth, and he would repeat it multiple times flossing different teeth. Still had perfect teeth at 13 when the cancer took him.
rhinoceraptor 4y ago
There has been work done is creating GM S. mutans that don't produce biofilms, and that would replace your native S. mutans. It could be done by just brushing your teeth with a toothbrush treated with the bacteria so it would cost pennies per treatment.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 4y ago
  That’s a long way from actually replacing brushing and flossing. For one thing, streptococcus sobrinus is more closely associated with cavity formation than streptococcus mutans. But more importantly these biofilms are a significant evolutionary advantage so this replacement is an unstable situation. Some positive benefits are likely, just don’t assume it can work alone.
  - arrosenberg 4y ago
    Biofilms are an evolutionary advantage for the bacteria, not the host. Biofilms make the colony much, much harder to kill. How advantageous can it be to the host anyways, if 4 out of 5 dentists recommends obliterating it 2-3x a day?
    - dataangel 4y ago
      They may indirectly be an advantage for the host because if the bacteria aren't competitive they will get replaced by bacteria that are. The devil you know...
      - arrosenberg 4y ago
        I hear you, but again - the strongly recommended medical advice is to brush your teeth twice a day to remove bacteria before they can form a biofilm, so if that was true, you would expect to see people who brush their teeth have worse problems from advantageous bacteria.
    - Retric 4y ago
      This is trying to replace the bacteria population not the host. It’s like trying to stop drug use by busting drug dealers. As long as the niche exists a city can’t stop and say we caught all the bad guys problem is solved.

godelski 4y ago

Yes. Talk to your dental hygienist and they will confirm this. Mine told me a story recently of when she was in school they were graded on how little plaque they had on their teeth. So her and all her friends did everything they could. New toothbrushes, flossing, the metal scrapers, and helping each other. No one removed everything and I guess that's the point of the lesson. Plaque builds up quickly and over time. What harms teeth and gums is far more than microbes. But that also seems like where nanobots would come in. If you could have a mouth wash that had nanobots that would perform that abrasive scrubbing and then decay (and not leave byproducts) then it would help and could replace brushing and flossing. But definitely mouthwash is nowhere near the effectiveness of brushing nor flossing. Would be a cool future, but I suspect we're still a long way from that.

vorpalhex 4y ago
Crest Total Robot Remover. Removes 10% more nanobot particles!
- paranoidrobot 4y ago
  From some time in the future: > Please confirm you accept our terms of service before using Crest(tm) Total Robot Remover(sm) > Crest Total Robot Remover may gather my personal data, including DNA, RNA, and other identifying biometrics. > Crest may share my personal data with other third parties, including affiliated Health Insurance, Government and our trusted affiliates. > Crest's affiliated partners may perform analysis of my DNA, and any identifiable food or drink particles for the purpose of sending me offers. > You may choose to opt-out of this program at any time by sending 100 points of identifying documents, as well as a DNA sample to <PO BOX>.